Significant Steorn Forum Changes...

As many of you are aware, recently Steorn's forum changed from public viewing to member only viewing. This of course has caused a lot of discussion and debate, but there are plenty of places still out there in the open to discuss Steorn, including FreeEnergyTrackers, Fizzx, and of course this blog.

Something you may not know, is that Crank has now resigned as forum administrator. Crank's been administrating Steorn's forum for well over a year, and because of her relationship with Steorn, has been able to provide us with a lot of insight into the organization. I'd like to personally thank Crank for her service, and wish her well as a regular forum member! I also want to wish Magnatrix the best of luck putting up with everyone in the forum.

Forums are Public Again, Two Unnamed Jurors

The forums are again available to all anonymous lurkers. These seem to be Sunday only blackouts. Also in the forums today crank lets us know that she has the names of two jury members:

The way I'd look at it is...I was shown the names of two jury members. At any time over the past six months if Sean pissed me off sufficiently (and Sean is good at pissing me and everyone else off ) I could have phoned those scientists and asked them if they really were on the Steorn jury. If they weren't, they could and would have publicly disassociated themselves from the Irish crackpots who were using their name in vain. So if it was a house of cards, it would all have come tumbling down over quite a simple thing.

Therefore...the names he gave me had to be genuine. Therefore...there is a jury. Therefore...anything Sean has stated publicly about the jury has to be real, or jury members would be kicking up a fuss.

I don't exactly follow her logic, but it is her choice not to follow up on the information that was provided to her. She continues to talk about the Jury:

How could they be 'planted' members? They're people with pretty illustrious careers, in very famous institutions. Why would they get involved in a scam? What would be in it for them?

I'm assuming she is referring to the two jury members that she has direct knowledge of, but I could be wrong.

There is most likely a Jury, what we don't know is where they are in the process of ruling. Steorn has predicted that the Jury will reach a verdict late this year or early next year. In the mean time, we may or may not get additional information from Steorn.

Nodding Donkey at the Office

Today we learn about a supposed SPDC video involving a Nodding Donkey from almost and zpe:

almost: I would like McCarthy to explain why, in view of the horrible letdown of people who travelled thousands of miles to see an Orbo demonstration, he hasn't posted a video of the machine. He can at least post it privately to his loyal supporters in the SPUD - supporters who vociferously castigated a member who queried whether the Nodding Donkey prototype had Orbo inside, and were made to look foolish by their trust when after a considerable delay Shaun revealed that it didn't. Another 550bhp example, albeit not so egregious since the delay in Shaun's confession was less than the 6 weeks of the big engine.

Later, zpe provided us with this photo, which seems to have disappeared from Steorn's forum. He also has the video, which hopefully will become public soon.

Also today, crank visited Steorn:

Given the claims on Steorntracker, which were repeated in this forum, I went into Steorn this morning. I knew it wasn't true, but equally knew there was no point in saying so unless I could say that I'd physically gone in there and checked.

You'll be happy (or unhappy?) to hear that all was normal. Sean hasn't visited the forum recently, so was unaware that he was supposed to be..arrested..bought out by MIB..done a runner..sacked etc. etc. etc..

All employees were present and correct. Including the Frenchman

It seems like our anonymous trouble maker has hit a nerve with some folks over in Steorn's forum. Lately I've been modding these types of posts. If you're going to post "facts" here, please have something to back them up with.

Crank's Opinion and Some Horbyists

Today on Steorn's forum, crank questions whether drmike's statement about Scott Little obtaining orbo details and not being able to replicate the device are valid:

crank: drmike is not right in his (reported) remarks about Scott
Little. Scott Little was given no more information than anyone else.
If he tried to replicate, it was from the hints and clues dropped on
this forum.

And how does crank know this?

crank: Because when I saw that remark of drmike's quoted in one of the
threads here I texted Sean and asked him. He texted back that Scott
Little had got the same information that everyone else did.

I wish crank could do a little more for us skeptics, we could all use a little bit of evidence. She clearly has more access to Steorn then the rest of us. We'll have to wait to hear what drmike has to say in response.

Also this week, many hobbyists have been attempting to build their own Orbos. Here is a video from ZeroFossilFuel that you might enjoy:

An Active Day in the Forum

There was a substantial amount of activity in the forums today. We'll start off with a visit from Sean:

Folks,

Sorry that I have not been able to come in here and take the beatings, I will try to get some time over the next few weeks.

Thanks,

Sean

Sean stays around for a little bit and answers a few questions:

Fiksu_Vekotin: Does this failed demo change your plans on releasing the tech in anyway?

Steorn: Our strategy will remain the same, however it is fair to say that we will to do some different things at a tactical level, but I am not going to comment on what they might be at this stage.

genesis:what can u say about info leak from DrMike--is this true----did this impacted to his visit?

Steorn: I have not seen any 'leaked' info, I have not had a chance to be on the net till now. Hows my health - grand, at the end of the day I droped the ball, I did it in a public way but its done, I have to dust myself off and get on with it.

A cryptic leaked info debate between crank and drmike can be seen over in this thread. crank claims to have deleted a post from drmike with proprietary information in it. she then goes on to say that she and drmike worked out their differences in a private conversation.

jimboot:Any news on the new SPDC intake yet?

Steorn: Hi Jim, I met with a few of the new SPDC folks yesterday for quite a while. I will be following up on getting thier accounts set up when I get back to the office.

probus:how do you want to regain credibility, Sean? dont you think that it is almost impossible to do so?

Steorn: Well I guess that many would say that the nature of the claim never allowed me to be viewed as credible, for sure we will have to do something to regain the confidence of those who hope we are right, we will do that.

Sean makes a good point here. The failed demo doesn't do Steorn very much damage, considering that most everyone didn't believe them in the first place. What it does is do is attract more folks who may have a proprinsity of believe for this type of thing.

genesis: SEAN----free energy is what u believe or is what u say to get science on this.....PLEASE answer if u can......

Steorn: We have measured every energy source that it is possible to measure and hence we are confident in our claim that it is free energy. There is always the possibility that the tech taps ZPE/Dark Energy, but it is just not possible to measure these. Even if we are tapping ZPE/Dark Energy the net result to all of us is the same, the energy is free.

sb2020: You said you would have something to show - either Stop/start or CM. Why not show the original config when the CM failed?

Steorn: The reason that the demo failed was at the end of the day the pressure put on our engineers to get the system running in the demo case in a few hours. This compressed time frame forced us to do things (replacing parts on the fly) that would not have happend if the pressure was not there. It was my call to do this in the short time available to us on site, it was a bad call and not one that I am going to repeat by pre-announcing a time frame. When the demo is done next time we will install the tech in a calm and rational manner, then announce it.

probus: i m convinced Sean, you are absolutely aware of the fact that it its not about hope but about hard scientific facts and indeed a working device. do you think you and your company is able to respond within the next 2 coming months in a way that will satisfy all the disappointed people?

Steorn: We will respond, we have to, but I am not going to discuss time frames at this point.

Supposedly the Jury will be delivering at the end of this year, so the time frame for any response from Steorn will most likely come before then.

b2020: So why not show the old config - would have saved some face?

Steorn: The straight answer to the is that the 'stop-start' configs are not as robust as the CM systems. You may view it as saving face, but for me the key issue is not to compound the error I made.

Sean mentioned in the Friday update that the old configuration has been known not to survive a car trip. These devices seem to be very fragile! I'm guessing it will be a while before my cell phone battery is replaced.

Dr. Mike gave a short update on his trip:

drmike: No shift for me. I'm still really skeptical.

twinbee: So can we interpret that to mean you haven't seen the device in action yet? Didn't Steorn show you anything?

drmike: I got to see what all the other spudders saw. It was the same thing that Steorn sent me in a tech report. Sean is actually thinking about releasing it all to open source - but wants some NDA to cover ip so needs to think about it.

And finally:

You'll get a full report when I get back home on a real Linux machine. I can use anything, but I like comfort

It's was a bit unclear, but it sounds like he'll be back Wednesday for the full report.


One last item of interest. crank today revealed a little bit about what SPDC'ers know regarding the manufacturer of Steorn's toy:

Fiksu_Vekotin:By the way Crank, a long time ago there was talk about a "well known" partner that Steorn had. I know you know who it is, but does the SPDC know it?

crank: Yes, the SPDC knows who it is. The SPDC has been given basically all the same info that I was given at the start, plus some additional stuff..

It's hard to believe that the details of this well known partner haven't leaked out of the SPDC along with all the other leaks.

As drmike put it "too many threads to scan!!"

Crank's Silence

Over on the Free crank!!! thread, we've learned why crank hasn't posted in a while:

Hello all - I just stopped posting once I realised I was getting quoted elsewhere It's one thing spoofing around with people that you think of as 'friends' (which included Thicket, I have to say) another when you realise you're being quoted elsewhere. So now I glance in once a day or so, then run.

I wonder who she's referring to? ;-) My personal thought on this is that the Internet is the Internet. Whether crank is posting on the forum for the whole world to see, or quoted here on this little ol' blog, there's no difference.

I'm certain that Steorn's forums get a lot more traffic then this blog anyway, and my other guess is that the majority of the visitors here also frequent the forums. My goal in all of this is to make it a little easier for folks who don't have as much time as the rest of us to keep up with the latest Steorn activities.

Another Week has Passed

The week is over, and while we've got a status update on Dr. Mike's visit, we unfortunately haven't heard about any progress with crank's potential visit. This week I've missed crank's comments in the forum, let's hope she's just on holiday! I did notice that her account was active a few hours ago, so we know she's not completely MIA and hopefully next week she and Cathy C can work something out. It's not much fun tracking Steorn when there's nothing to report!

On another note, an anonymous poster suggested that I add a link to Gabbly here. Notice under the external links section that you can now visit Steorn's Forums with Gabbly Chat. I jump on every once in a while, but lately no one has been too active at least when I'm around.

The Day After Questions

Today Sean posted this to the forum:

After all the disappointment of yesterdays 'news', drop any questions in here and I will try to answer.

Unfortunately Sean wasn't able to keep up with the gazillion questions from everyone, including myself. He did address many of the questions and concerns. Here are most of Sean's comments broken into sections:


On The Jury Process and the Demo:

SteornTracker: ...Do you have any plans between July and December to keep up the publics awareness? What impact do you expect the July demos to have on the Jury?

Steorn: Hi ST - the July demo was never in the original plan, it is a 'opportunistic' move on our part. Again I have to stress that I cannot with any degree of confidence say when the Jury process will end, its just not up to me/Steorn in any way. We have no other plans at this point, but I would not rule out anything at this stage either.

duncan torus: do you promise that come July if the constant motion version is not ready you will still demo the original "start/stop" device?

Steorn: The demo will happen, we fully expect to have a constant speed device, if not we will demo a 'stop-start' device.

Dovetailed: What is the principle reason for Steorn's current level of secrecy?...

Steorn: There are several reasons, on a very basic point it will make no difference to our time to market, since we are obviously waiting until validation anyway. There are IP and patent issues also and clearly there is a risk of giving counterfeiters and competitors a heads up.

The decision on the July demos was a risk/reward decision for us - we feel that the public exposure will be worth taking some of the risks highlighted above. And it is also about the time that we need to engage with main stream media again.

Sean didn't explain why Steorn needs to engage the main stream media again before the Jury process is over, that'll be a question for a future discussion.

nleseul:Have the jury members seen a working device? (If this is something you can comment on.)

Steorn: They are currently in part I of the process (an addition at the request of the applicants), this is a form of 'peer' review and is paper based. We have confirmed visit dates set for the near future, but I am not going to go into this any further for obvious reasons.

nleseul: Unfortunate that the skeptics are going to love spinning that one, though.

Steorn: They are entitled to their views, the non-believer/believer war will not be resolved until the Jury process is complete, and for the truly crazy this will in fact be part of the scam as well. Its all noise, lol Seamus was showing me some of the comments from another forum, its pure vitriol, according to the stuff that I was shown I had already made 750k from sale of Steorn shares (I have for the record made zero from the sale of Steorn shares), there are crazy theories surrounding the Steorn Nominees thing and so on.

We do far more than most companies would be bother do do about demonstrating that we are about the validation process, and not a fraud. People will always make their own minds up about this. It is never the reaction of the fringes of either side of the argument that matter, it just seems that way because the fringes tend to be very vocal!

spinn3er: General expectations (at least here on the forum) for the jury to conclude phase 1 was from 5min to a month maybe. Now after more than 3 months, what is going on? Thanks for the answer. (i hope)

Steorn: Yes, but again I have to state that the addition to the process was done at the request of many applicants. We are very much slaves to the process that we have engaged in, it was never going to be fast, some parts may be faster than we expect and some may be slower. I personally believe that the current phase of the process will in fact speed up the overall process, because the fundamental 'science' issues are being looked at, but as always time will tell.

We've learned a lot more about the current state of the Jury process this past week. From a closure standpoint, it's sad to learn that the Jury process may go on for a much longer period then what was initially expected.


On The Technology and Orbo Product:

my_pen_is_stuck: Can you please tell me the colour, length, width, etc of the 100K orbo toys?

Steorn: They will fit on a desk, but I wont say anymore than that at this time, sorry!

Steorn: The colour, like the device itself we will only 'reveal' following validation. They are all going to be the same colour though!

Neutrino:what progress do you have with the continuous motion testing? Do you observe this effect at all, if so, how much more effective it is than the start/stop version, does it it make all your existing patents obsolete? Well, any news in this direction?

Steorn: Yes, we have made huge progress on this - we expect to be demoing this version in July. Again I have to say sorry and say that there is not a lot of detail that I can go into at this time.

babcat: Could you share any more technical specifications of the technology with us (start/stop or constant motion)? ... is there anything you could tell us about the general direction the specifications (for example power densities or power to weight ratios) are headed?

Steorn: Hi babcat, the answer is no at this point. Of course the very limited details we put on the site yesterday in no way could be considered 'detailed', and I am genuinely sorry about the disappointment that this caused. With respect to the direction, the version that we are currently developing will have a significantly greater power density than the 0.5 watts/cm3 quoted yesterday.

I appreciate Sean accepting the fact that yesterday was a bit of a let down for us.

rubentherat: How far are you on the road to continuous motion. An estimation? 50%, 60%,70%

Steorn: I would say 80-90% of the way.

uomipoika: What's the basic difference between start/stop and continuous motion devices? Does the start/stop mean that the device must be restarted and restarted all over again to keep it running? Or does it mean that the device is startable and stoppable? (Once you start it, it rolls until someone presses the stop-button?)

Steorn: Stop/start devices stop in the middle of a cycle, there is no manual intervention.

Chilean One:Does the Continuous motion involves electromagnets?

Steorn: Nope

icuken: What is the cycle timeperiod for the start/stop device?

Steorn: Well obviously it depends on the config, they can be pretty fast, I do not know off the top of my head, sorry.

smarthousesys: Sean, Any unfamiliar elements used in Orbo (Neo is a familiar element) - just looking for a yes/no? Thanks

Steorn: No!

J i O: You've publicly stated that your intention all along was not to move forward with the development of continuous motion. Yet that decision was reversed? What did you learn or ascertain that motivated this reversal?

Steorn: Well we obviously continue to look at methods of implementation (mostly from a patent standpoint), one of these concepts we spent some time building a test rig and testing and the results from these tests lead us to believe that the development would d be worth the investment.

On the SPDC and Near Term Activities:

Suomipoika: Question about crank's and drmike's visit. Have those visits been scheduled? If not, why?

Steorn: The answer is that no they have not yet been scheduled, the reason is that we have been extremely busy for us. Cathy C keeps our to-do list and she has started to hassle me about it so I think that these will get set up pretty soon.

my_pen_is_stuck: I'd like to know your reaction to the progress of the SPDC. Are they living up to about what you expected?

Steorn: Again another slow process - we are pushing content up as fast as we can produce it, but it takes time. I guess the real question would if the members feel that it is living up to expectations, if I were a member I might be frustrated with the speed of content .

On the Media, the Documentary, and Everything Else:

my_pen_is_stuck: ... So, are you guys deliberately trying to look like nutters to avoid attention?

Steorn: lol, we never had any doubts that we would be viewed as nutters from the outset, and we have rejected any media interviews since early September, we have no more to say of an substance until the key question is answered.

Neutrino: Since Steorn technology is known to public for 8 months now, have you been contacted by some influential people, e.g. governments, military, UN, European Commission, greenpeace, individuals?

Steorn: We still get contacted by loads of people from across the spectrum, we do not meet any of them to be honest, there is just no point until the validation process is complete.

Neutrino: I remember you said that the validation should be completed before the documentary will be released. What is the planned format: one episode 45 or 90 minutes long or whole series dedicated to one of the greatest inventions/discoveries of XXI century? Any clues from the production company?

Steorn: My understanding is that it will be a single 60 min documentary.

With all the video that has been captured and the magnitude of the claim, I expected at least a mini-series!

my_pen_is_stuck: At this point, the fence sitters still don't know if it's real or not. Are they wasting their time? Or are they in for the most exciting ride of a life time? We just want to know if the bloody thing works or not.

Steorn: I understand that, but to be honest the if it works or not is up to the Jury, it has always been. I must admit to being shocked at how much time people spend debating us, I think that in a way that Steorn is just the topic that allows the people in here to get into debate, it could just as easily be religion or something else. The answer to the question is still some time off.

I do enjoy a good debate. Good observation Sean! And finally, iscore4ever wanted to know how Sean felt about the technology somehow being thwarted by big oil, governments, or some other entities:

Steorn: Ok first, we do not file patents in the US only, second we will not only rely on patent protection and finally our 'market' is the internet.

I wonder what else they will rely on besides patent protection. With their claimed licensing model, and the Jury publications digging into the fundamental physics of the phenomena, it doesn't sound like they plan on holding any trade secrets. Sean's comment on the market being the Internet sounds a little dot-com'ish to me. Maybe he was getting a little tired by this point!

I appreciate Sean's willingness to confront some of the more ardent skeptics in Steorn's Forum. I hope he continues the dialog. There are so many more questions!

You Know Its a Slow Day in the Forums When...

crank doesn't even post ;-(

Sorry, nothing to report today. Hopefully we'll have a busy week of reporting once Steorn releases their updates this week.

Shooting the Messenger

Crank has banned my account on the forums. Here is her reasoning:

I banned Steorntracker, because he requested to be allowed to join at a time when new joining was suspended. He said that he wouldn't publish confidential information, but did.

He can read the forums just like anyone else. He doesn't post anyway, so it won't make much difference to him, but I don't see why he should be accommodated when he didn't keep his word.

Steorn and Crank have every right to ban me from their forum, it's their forum. It's silly though to accuse me of publishing confidential information.

SPDC Update From Crank

It looks like Crank got permission to publish updates on the SPDC. She has a long post over on the forums here. I've quoted the more interesting points:

People have quite a few beefs with the forum software. It's not as user-friendly as the software on this forum
...
So far we've been presented with the first module of an e-learning course - this module was visible to non-members when the website first went live, so many of you will have seen the first incarnation.
...
I've asked Sean (here on this forum) if the effect will be understandable to 'people with dirty fingernails' and he's said Yes. If all the information is provided in as clear a form as the first module, then hopefully he's right.
...
Sean has been noticeably absent for the last ten days, there appears to be a big push on to design the 'public demo' unit, and implement/improve the new incarnation of the technology.
...
There's been a deafening silence from the members who are the chief suspects for The Magnificent Seven (the first set of replicators).

And now for the most interesting part of her post:

A few days into the SPDC, we were given the name of one of the physicists involved in the original round of testing. It's intended that this physicist will join the SPDC, and do a Q & A session with the rest of the members. This physicist is still working on 'the effect', so everyone's really looking forward to speaking with him. The SPDC members are satisfied with his credentials, background, experience and area of expertise.

Some surprisingly illustrious names have appeared on the member-list, which has caused a flurry of excitement. Even the most illustrious is approachable and friendly, and (like the rest of us) looking forward to the meat course.

This was a great post from Crank. I quoted more of it than I left out. Let's hope that we all learn who some of these people are in the near future! It would be great if one of the SPDC members could independently verify the physicists involved in the original round of testing. They have their names now, why not visit the university and see if they know what Steorn says they know? That would go a very long way towards removing thoughts of scam or hoax.

Recent Steorn Forum Comments

I've added a quick link list on the left hand side of the blog with links to specific users on Steorn's Forum that I monitor. Check out some of the interesting posts from Steorn, Crank, Dr. Mike, and Others!