Dr. Mike's Progress
Over in the thread Few Questions to drMike blueletter asks:
Dr. Mike, How's your Sv testing progressing?drmike responds:
I'm waiting on Steorn to OK my proposal. I'd like to create a public physics experiment so we can all discuss it, and I'd like for it to be so far off from Steorn's methods that you can't directly see how it connects to anything they are doing. I've got plans, and I've got a few parts listed I'd want to order to build the thing (steel frame mostly) but there's no point in proceeding if Steorn won't let me talk about it.Hopefully Dr. Mike will get the thumbs up from Steorn soon and can move forward with his experiment.
40 comments:
Thanks for requesting them to approve Dr. Mike's test. It should be a no-brainer. Why the stall if not?
Excellent site. Keep up the great work. Thanks.
Sean has failed a number of credibility tests. DrMike's proposal is the next test.
If Sean refuses or ignores the request, that's another credibility hit.
I expect that Sean will
1. ignore the request or
2. effectively kill it with double-talk and procrastination.
Prove me wrong, Sean.
Thicket
Haven't seen much of Sean lately. You nasty skeptics must have scared him back under whatever rock he crawled out from under.
How long until he shuts down the carnival side show that is the Steorn Forum?
I expect a statement from Sean in the next month or so, that the July demo has been cancelled with an excuse something like, "We have decided not to proceed with the demonstration as skeptics have created an unhealthy/dangerous/negative atmosphere not condusive to a public demonstration" or some such. The belivers will agree that it is the fault of the skeptics and that this is the best course of action while continuing to worship at the feet of Sean.
I could be wrong, maybe it will be an anonymous bomb threat the day before the demo. We should start a pool. I say June 24, cancelled for security reasons.
"How long until he shuts down the carnival side show that is the Steorn Forum?"
---
Not sure he will. Sean seems to live by that Oscar Wilde maxim:
"There's only one thing worse than people talking about you, and that's people not talkin about you"
Though me associating that master of the English language with someone who, at times, seems barely literate has probably got Wilde spinning in his grave fast enough to light a small town.
"But then at least they were not a scam, just an error. "
----
More likely and error followed by a scam / self deception.
Sean has clearly said they have a "self sustaining, continuously running device". You can make an error using test rigs (which might have been what happened 3 years ago) but you can't confuse non-perpetual motion with perpetual motion. By this stage they would have recognised their error but have continued to burn investor money - that's a scam (though it might not be criminal fraud).
Topic: How Much Are Steorn Shares Worth?
The value of Steorn shares depends on your perspective.
1. If Steorn went bankrupt, each share would be worth 0.01 Euros. This is the nominal share value listed in the Steorn financial statements.
2. If you were buying shares in Steorn, you’d pay in excess of 1500 Euros per share. Here is the share price history for investors buying Steorn shares.
July 25, 2000 – Jan. 25, 2002
• 0.01 Euros per share for the ‘original four’ investors. You should recognize the names by now. They are Sean McCarthy, Michael Daly, Shaun Menzies and Francis Hackett.
• 14.11 Euros per shares for the other two investors.
Jan. 26, 2002 – Jan. 25, 2003
• No shares sold.
Jan. 26, 2003 – Jan. 25, 2004
• No shares sold.
Jan. 26, 2004 – Sept. 30, 2004
• 0.01 Euros per share. 100 shares alotted.
Oct.1, 2004 – Sept. 30, 2005
• 335.18 Euros per share.
Oct.1, 2005 – Sept 30, 2006
• 1623.64 Euros per share.
Oct.1, 2006 – March 26, 2007
• 1585.43 Euros per share.
3. If you were selling your shares, it would depend on what you could get for them. Steorn is not listed on any stock market so you probably would have difficulty finding someone to buy the shares.
In the history of Steorn, there are only five investors that have divested some of their shares to other investors. These five are the ‘original four’ (Sean McCarthy, Michael Daly, Shaun Menzies, Francis Hackett) who bought their shares at 0.01 Euros per share, and Tom Byrne, who is one of two early Steorn investors. Steorn financial records do not show what compensation these five investors received for their shares.
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=56471&page=5
* Steorn
* CommentTime20 minutes ago
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drmike:I'm waiting on Steorn to OK my proposal. I'd like to create a public physics experiment so we can all discuss it, and I'd like for it to be so far off from Steorn's methods that you can't directly see how it connects to anything they are doing. I've got plans, and I've got a few parts listed I'd want to order to build the thing (steel frame mostly) but there's no point in proceeding if Steorn won't let me talk about it.
Mike, your memory bad again, kinda like that time that you forgot about the two days of testing. As I am sure you will NOW remember I mailed you a range of issues with your proposed test the use of 'steel' being one of them. Perhaps you should upgrade your strapline and include 'when I remember' as a pretext!
Sean
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Spoiling for a fight?
Rofl... we didn't have to wait long. I see that Sean picked my option 2 when dealing with DrMike's proposal.
2. effectively kill it with double-talk and procrastination.
From the Steorn forums.
Quote (by Sean)
Mike, your memory bad again, kinda like that time that you forgot about the two days of testing. As I am sure you will NOW remember I mailed you a range of issues with your proposed test the use of 'steel' being one of them. Perhaps you should upgrade your strapline and include 'when I remember' as a pretext!
Unquote
Sean, you're so subtle (not) in shifting blame to DrMike. You're so phony that your ears must be ringing perpetually.
Sean just posted on the Dr. Mike situation. Seems as though he is now mocking our Dr. Mike in one long winded sentence:
"@ bl, I cant stop, and do not want to stop anyone posting experiments, I had mailed Mike a simple one that we use, he did not want to use this version of it (I have no problem with that) and proposed another design, I mailed Mike with some key problems for the test (lets remember that this is a test to measure a known effect), the last I heard is Mikes post above, but then he has 'forgotton' things in the past and I am sure he his thinking about galatic conquest and screwdriver sets, so the fella is busy."
Sean can be such a prick!
Why is he bad mouthing a VOLUNTEER who spends so much time on the boards helping people with not a single word of malice.
Did I already say that Sean was a prick?
Cynic Rule #3,104:
If you cannot present a cogent argument, resort to ad hominems.
Good work Will!
The topic of the the last blog got Sean to reply!
Dr. Mike now has appoval for the test - even if we did have to watch an unwarranted flogging of Dr. Mike (the saint) to get the answer.
So there comes another blow to steorn...I wonder why he did not comment on the stupidity of his earlier visitor - the crank.
Perhaps she is 'safe' to handle and Dr Mike is too dangerous. Sean is now trying to get rid of him.
Now its obvious why other scientists did not entertain steorn. With a CEO like this, I'd not touch their tech with a 10 foot pole.
The hope for a clean unlimited source of energy is drowned in a pile of shit created by Sean. I'm sorry to say that even if the tech is real, he is going to be called as a villain for holding it so long. I surely doubt his agenda. Its far from honest.
Now Sean is demanding answers from Mike!
Thats rich!
Sorry Sean, anyone can have a bad day. For now I will put your offensive towards Mike as a 'wrong side of the bed' moment, but please lay off Mike, he is the nicest person on the forum and I have never seen anything but the highest decorum from him.
sonoboy:There was practicly no 'lag' for 35 grade neo and same readings for a cheap Radio shack ceramic. ~ 10 microseconds to full signal amplitude in both cases..
Sean - Ok, this is one of the points that I raised with Mike, the lag is real, its not a Steorn 'invention', its a fact of the ferro magnetic world, if you cant measure it then it shows a problem with your experiment. Steorn did not discover lag, its been known about for 150 years. So again if you cant measure it, for sure you cant do a thermodynamic analysis of it.
--------
There's the setup. Next comes "well you aren't qualified to test our machine".
Nooo....he wouldn't do that would he?.......
Sean will do anything he can to stop/discourage DrMike from coming, as long as he is able to put the blame on DrMike.
If DrMike does go, Sean will do everything possible to limit DrMike's viewing / testing / disassembling of the Steorn device.
You can smell Sean's fear and suspicion.
It looks a little like a remake of the pennies show.
By the way, did anyone notice that the avatar of the nosy account icon
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j290/Pogmahone/Magnet%20stuff/Lurker-32x32.png
and cranks animated gif from the drmike thread
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j290/Pogmahone/radB58CF.gif
are stored in the same place?
Maybe crank is Seans wife? :o)
He's making it up as he goes along.
"Hi Penny,
We use diffenet types of magnets (usually Neodymium). Now please answer my question.
Thanks,
Sean "
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=20521&page=4&Focus=425131#Item_44
I would guess this latest discussion is the reason for the latest removal of dissenters.
Sean wanted to moan at DrMike for being less than truthfull, but he knew any right minded person would have reminded him of his own less than truthfull endevours.
550bhp, There is no book, there is a book, We are going to demo our device but we are not going to tell you where or when..etc etc etc
Sean:
Fair point, but he has agreed to go and test it, and I felt that he was not quite honest on the matter, or the testing matter, so I decided to question him on it, thats all, lol, ya know I should also get a chance to ask questions once in a while :bigsmile:
--
"I felt that he was not quite honest"
Thats kind of like calling someone a liar, no?
Sean you have banned people for less than your actions today.
Dr.Mike is keeping a stiff upper lip, good on him.
Sean, why are you trying to pick a fight? Is this going to be another Pennies or Hairykrishna episode?
Sean is pitching a fit because Mike doesn't answer him immediately.
So Crank felt the need to interject nothing but a video of someone running from a fight.
Why was she at the College presentation? She and Sean could never arrange for her to go see the 'Validation Orbo' due to conflicting schedules etc., but at a moments notice she shows up at a Dublin College to listen to him speak? So she can comment about those nasty scientists and there 'faith'.
I am really beginning to think she's a plant and has been from day one. I have to laugh when I read a comment from her about how she is only '30% a believer'. So 70% of the time she believes her beloved Sean is either a pathological liar or an incompetent boob?
Honesty and accuracy are two completely separate issues.
I believe this issue to be accuracy. By calling it an issue of honesty it has become emotionally charged.
A few of Sean's taunts at drmike:
CommentAuthorSteorn
Mike, ok, so its now stainless steel, care to comment on your lapse of memory on the 2 days, did you get your ticket? Will you upgrade your strapline?
CommentAuthorSteorn
"Patience, persistence, truth"
to
"When I remember patience, persistence, truth, and silence when asked a question"
Sean
"Galactic Conquest and Screwdriver Sets"
Now Sean is questioning drmikes honesty, I won't bother to quote those here. I'm afraid that drmike is going to go the way of HK and become the villan Sean is making him out to be.
Drmike is one of the nicest guys on the forum too.
So Sean shows up, gets on DrMikes case demanding a resonse for an hour, concerning something that happened April 18th?
And why is this important to Sean now?
Weird. But hey, at least no one is talking about the financials anymore.
Wow, that was depressing.
As unlikely as their claim is, I still keep finding myself hoping it's real. But it sure appears that Sean is looking to pick a fight with Dr Mike, or, failing that, setting the stage to discredit him. Either way gets him out of having any tire-kicking ever really actually place....
Good on Dr Mike for not taking the bait. Sadly, that exchange dimmed the last rays of hope I had that this is for real.
I have every confidence drmike can handle himself, he has proven that time after time.
I found it ironic that Sean went on and on about what amounts to a mountain in a molehill contrasted to the issue at hand, the experiments, which go the the core of things. Most of us care not a wit about any misunderstandings about mere logistics, email, communication response times, or any of that fluff. It is the experiments that we care about.
Seans belittling of drmike's sig line and his use of communication noise to impune drmike's veracity was pushing the line. Again,ironic since drmike is trying to bend over backwards to protect Sean's and Steorn's propriarity info, and respect the NDA.
However, I think it is important for everyone to keep as much light on the subject as possible, and to avoid heat. Entropy is all to ready to pounce. A certain amount of behavioral flexability and Aikido is called for at this critical juncture IMHO.
If Mike had a plane ticket, I would be far less suspicious of Seans motives in badgering Mike today.
Any bets Mike never sees a ticket? Remember, the same person who was arranging the Atkins test is handling Mikes arrangents.
"oh, the airlines don't do those types of flights."
LOL
You know, I find the cynics' "thinking" processes to be gut-bustingly hilarious.
I want Dr. Mike to get his science on as much as anyone, but all of a sudden you cynics all treat Dr. Mike as if he is THE solution, THE "second coming," etc. just so that the other guy can look bad in your eyes, however temporarily.
Look, this is very easy, eggheads: either Steorn have what they claim or they don't.
Even if Steorn spurned visits by every interested journalist and scientist in the world, they are unavoidably going to be judged scientifically if they ever get their products to market.
So what is this drama bullcrap that you keep indulging in about whether Sean is a scammer or not? What is the point?
If there's no free energy, your lives are going on the same as before.
If there is...you're going to have to examine your entire cognition process.
And that's what I think you're most afraid of.
Sean likes to keep people posting 'on the hop'. He's very good at seeming credible in quick exchanges - I would imagine that, face to face, he is a very good debater.
He dislikes it when people think too much about what he is saying or dissect his comments at a later date.
I think drmike is wise to be careful of experimental details and the NDA. It gives Sean a perfect 'out'.
Example: Drmike posts a thread detailing an experiment. Sean deletes it, bans him and states that obviously he can't be trusted to examine a machine as he 'doesn't respect their NDA'.
Remember that me asking Crank a question was taken as evidence that I don't respect NDAs.
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=56471&page=7
Sean:On Pennies, I am sure they will come back if they want to, on Thicket, lol what can I say, it would seem unfair on the old fella, might seem like I was picking on him - but I am quite sure that he will be back in, or have someone come back in with his latest fraud theory. He is 'following the money' and doing a great job at misunderstanding holding companies, offshore companies, BES investments, share transfers, CRO filings and so on, but hey it keeps the fella off the streets.
--
I am curious as to where the 'misunderstanding' on Thicket's part is. Maybe Sean could enlighten us.
uh, am i really the only one who laughed at the comment?
Wow, this really is a lot of fun!
Thanks for the words of support. I really would like to find an infinite energy source, just like the guys at Earthtech.
It has been quite an Aikido like day. Check out the "Sv Experiment" thread when you get a chance - I need all the help I can get to make sure I measure Sv right!
Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike
Sean has failed a number of credibility tests. DrMike's proposal is the next test.
If Sean refuses or ignores the request, that's another credibility hit.
I expect that Sean will
1. ignore the request or
2. effectively kill it with double-talk and procrastination.
Prove me wrong, Sean.
Thicket
-----------------------
The burden of proof is on you matey boy, you're the one making the accusation.
The July demo will not happen! This is obvious because Steorn will not even announce the Demo until Demo day! That is the worst PD move I have ever heard of. I think Sean will blame the lawyers again! The longer this goes on the weirder it gets!
"The burden of proof is on you matey boy, you're the one making the accusation."
Aww... isn't that cute...Thickets got a stalker.
Maybe you need a new handle Thicket. How about Scaramanga, or Blofeld, If you want to stick with the theme. (G)
Even skeptics wish that Steorn's claim were true. However, wishing isn’t enough. “Orbo” is never going to happen. For me it hasn’t been the scientific impossibility of “free energy” that drove me away from the “fence”, it’s been Sean’s actions over the last 9 months. When this was announced in August of last year, I was skeptical, but like everyone else, I was caught up in the dream. Now I simply don’t believe Steorn’s claim. Sean has dragged this thing out for too long. We are coming up on 9 months! If he wasn't prepared to provide evidence why all the hoopla? Why didn’t they just go into lockdown mode until they where ready to provide evidence? There is absolutely no reason to have a forum, accept public speaking engagements, or submit to interviews without evidence. In my opinion, that’s what makes Sean look suspicious. He seems to be trying too hard to “sell” the dream of free energy. Which begs the question, why?
Did Sean raise funds several years ago with an impossible promise? Did the investors grow weary or impatient when Steorn couldn’t produce a miracle energy machine? Did Sean come up with this strategy when he felt the heat of potential lawsuits, or worse? Did his investors begin to suspect fraud? Is Steorn engaged in this last desperate act to prevent charges? Sean’s actions to date make a reasonable person wonder.
Please, stop with the nonsense about scientific sceptics being afraid that it is true. That is nonsense.
I am an academic, and a sceptic of Steorn's claim. If what they have is real, it would force me to change an awful lot of my views of the world.
And I would be delighted to do so. This wouldn't cost me my job ... it would make my job a heck of a lot more interesting!
I believe CoE because I have seen tons of reasons to believe it and no reasons not to. When you have lots of evidence for a theory and absolutely no evidence against it, you would have to be quite mad to disbelieve it. It is not an article of faith, it is an article of sane judgment.
If Steorn demonstrates a CoE-violating effect, well, then that changes the situation. Evidence against something as fundamental as CoE would require a revolutionary reworking of lots of science and mathematics.
And I really would love it if that would happen. For one thing, an unlimited source of clean, free energy would be an enormous boon to humankind. As a human, I am in favor of enormous boons to humankind. It would create an awful lot of work to rewrite lots of scientific theory AND THAT WOULD BE FUN. I am also in favor of fun.
Scientists are not priests guarding an orthodox faith against heresy. Science is not about maintaining a set of revealed truths, it is about investigating the world through experiment and theory. Any real scientist will readily acknowledge that there is lots about the world that we don't know, and that the scientific theories of 100 years hence will no doubt contain things that we would find quite surprising today. Any real scientist would welcome an advance in our understanding of the world, even if it contradicts previous understanding.
However, "Sean says so and some people think he is credible" is simply not sufficient evidence to throw out a thoroughly well-evidenced theory. Real, unhedged, clear and unambiguous physical evidence, though, is another matter entirely.
I do not believe that Sean has what he says he has. I would be delighted to be proven wrong. The "scientific establishment" does not fear Steorn's evidence. We just haven't seen any of it.
Well said anonymous academic! I hope I can buy you a Guinness one of these days!
There's a lot to learn here, but it's mostly about psychology :-)
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