I'd like to wish everyone a happy New Year. Thank you all for your contributions in 2007 to Free Energy Tracker, together we've been able to keep up with Steorn's events and claims. My hope for 2008 is that some form of closure is reached. I realize that this might be wishful thinking on my part! To everyone, including Steorn, enjoy your holiday, and have a successful and productive 2008!
Monday, December 31, 2007
Thursday, December 27, 2007
In addition to making Wired's 10 Great Snake-Oil Gadgets, Steorn now comes in at number 10 on Wired's annual 10 Vaporware Products of 2007. One interesting note is that unlike the great snake-oil gadget list, Wired's vaporware product list is determined by votes cast by Wired readers. Steorn is becoming part of the geek culture, unfortunately not in the manner that they had anticipated.
Sunday, December 2, 2007
It looks like 15-india-street isn't the only one checking out Steorn's latest financials. Gavin Daly, a writer with The Post.IE, writes his second Steorn article:
Steorn, a Dublin firm that claims to be developing a system that creates free energy, has raised €1.1million in funds amid rising losses.Gavin Daly was the first to write about Steorn and its free energy ambitions, a few months before their official Economist announcement. In the article Firm strives to extend mobile battery lifespans, Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, compares Steorn's tech to kinetic watches.
Friday, November 30, 2007
I came across a new website called Ning, which allows anyone to set up a custom social network, like Facebook or MySpace. I've set up Free Energy Trackers for all of us who are interested in what is going on with Steorn. Our first members are Dr. Mike, Sean McCarthy, and myself. Join and connect, and maybe we can figure this out together!
Saturday, November 24, 2007
On November 22nd, Steorn submitted another allocation of shares document to the Irish Government. Steorn raised another 1.08 million Euros. Three existing investors, Eamon McKinna, James Murphy, and JJ Sullivan bought a total of 661 shares of Steorn for 1640 Euros each. These three are the top investors in Steorn, investing more than a combined 9 million Euros. Thanks go to 15-India-Street for pointing us all to the latest allocation of shares document. Note that nleseul also mentions that Steorn's annual return has been filed, but has not yet been scanned for all to see.
Sunday, November 18, 2007
Along with 9 other gadgets, Wired has selected Steorn's Orbo as one of the 10 Great Snake-Oil Gadgets. From the article:
... File this one under deluded: enthusiastically setting up a public display, the inventors were humiliated when it failed to operate. But wait! Steorn gave its deal to 22 scientists who'll "validate" the device. Don't hold your breath, chaps. ...They seem to have sided with Dr. Mike on their opinion of Steorn.
... Think it might be real? For the love of Liebniz, get a freakin' clue: if it looks like a toy and the net gain is almost imperceptibly small, you're selling a measurement error. ...
Wednesday, November 7, 2007
As seen in this picture from Steorn's most recent press release, Irish President Mary McAleese visited Steorn in early October as part of the Bolton Trust 20th anniversary celebrations. Steorn Executivees Roger Hatfield, Sean McCarthy, and Richard Walshe stand beside President McAleese in the photo.
Also note that Sean McCarthy spoke as part of the Docklands Innovation Park Success Stories Session at the Anniversary conference. If anyone happens to have a transcript from the event or more details, please send them our way!
Friday, October 26, 2007
Craig at FreeEnergyTruth has posted his interview with Sean McCarthy, the CEO of Steorn. As expected, the interview was light. There were no questions about Thieu Knapen, founder of Kinetron, the only mention of a possible demo was that it would be held in Dublin, and of course no hint at a Jury update.
Friday, October 5, 2007
Wednesday, October 3, 2007
As readers here have posted recently, Steorn filed for the trademark "STEORNLAB" back on September 7th, 2007. From the goods and services section of the trademark:
"Providing test methods, namely, hardware and software to measure characteristics of mechanical systems, namely the torque and energy associated with mechanical systems and magnetic properties of materials"
It is unclear if this is related at all to the steornlab google page. I doubt Steorn would file a trademark strictly to thwart some hobbiest, but who knows. If anyone is familiar with trademark law, why would Steorn need to file this if they already have the trademark on Steorn?
Steorn is still alive and up to something, but now that they have gone radio silent, there hasn't been much to report. Any nugget of news or information, even as small as a trademark filing, is all we have to go on for now.
Wednesday, September 26, 2007
I really appreciate all the insightful comments on the previous post about a new method for producing solar cells that AVA Solar is claiming. Here are some of the highlights from the comments:
anonymous: Cadmium telluride is toxic.These points suggest that photovoltaics won't be the main solution to our energy problems, and I agree. To keep the conversation going, here are a couple of other recent news items related to solar energy that caught my attention, and should catch yours too:
The toxicity is not just because of the cadmium. Cadmium telluride triggers extensive reactive oxygen damage to the cell membrane, mitochondria, and cell nucleus.
maryyugo: Solar power is lovely and very necessary but the proper loading and control of the output is essential, costs money and wastes some energy. The equipment takes a lot of room and has a limited life time and a high replacement cost, both in money and in energy use. Finally, the sun doesn't shine a lot of the time in most places and solar energy deposition in most places is at a low rate per amount of area.
Solar power is nice-- but it's no panacea nor is it ever likely to supply the majority of the world's energy needs.
vardan1899: A lot of the cost is not in the cells but the frame, manufacturing, shipping, overhead, etc. too... In many cases there are tax breaks (US) that "really" pay for them. One must wonder if the cells themselves were "free" hAow much the panel would still end up costing.
Making solar cells cheaper is always cool, but I don't think it is going to be a giant impact anymore no matter what they do...
Splitting Water with Sunlight - " Researchers from the German Max Planck Institute have now developed a catalyst that may do just that..."
Solar Nation: Can the Sun Power the US? - David Mills, Chairmen and Chief Scientific Officer of Asura, a venture backed startup in Silicon Valley, presented on his approach to solving America's energy needs with Solar Energy. I came across this article while reading SciGuy.
Sunday, September 23, 2007
After two and a half months of silence in the forums, Steorn finally returns with this comment on the Orbo Irish Folk Songs thread:
Brilliant!To pass the time while we all wait to see what happens next with Steorn, I thought I'd share with you this piece of news I came across on Slashdot today. Supposedly a new method for producing solar cells developed at Colorado State University is about to go into production, reducing solar panel production costs down to $1 per watt from the current minimum $3 per watt. The company AVA Solar Inc will start production by the end of next year, no Jury validation required. Now that's getting pretty close to free energy!
Friday, September 14, 2007
Friday, August 31, 2007
In the forums today, FreshLaundry points everyone to Free Energy Truth, which has an exclusive interview with Blake, a Northrop Grumman employee located in Stuart Florida. Blake is a member of the SPDC, and is claiming that he was able to run an Orbo-like device in his own workshop for more than 8 hours:
It was late and I knew I had to work the next day so taking a final look at the running rig. I went to bed...it was still running when I woke up and when I left for work.Unfortunately Blake has not been able to repeat the 8 hour run:
I intend to keep trying to replicate the run to quell the naysayers. Until then it is just my word against the odds.
Thursday, August 30, 2007
On Steorn's forum today, RunningBare points us all to the full version of the k-toy video:
As folks point out in the forum, audio and parts of the video have been available since the beginning of this year, but this is the first time non-insiders get to see the full video. In the video, we see Thieu Knapen, founder of Kinetron, expressing how unbelievable Steorn's invention is and how certain he is that it is real.
Friday, August 24, 2007
In the Steorn forums yesterday, a new thread started entitled "Nothing New" which highlighted this entry from hdeasy over on Randi's forums:
So – some have visited the public forum. I am a member of the SPDC (private – NDA needed) and it is much more orderly there, as we have more scientists etc. Many skeptics did a u-turn in there as we have been shown a video of a famous inventor enthusing over the ‘miracle that is behind the technology’.If you do a quick google search on hdeasy, you'll discover that he's been following Steorn since last August, and applied to be on the Jury. He's currently a member of the SPDC and has been active in Steorn's forum in the past.
Then we learned the name of a physicist from an old uni who confirmed the effect but can’t go public as Steorn doesn’t want that yet. The story around that is very believable for me.
Finally, the mechanism has been explained – very simple, and I wrote a Fortran sim to convince myself of it. It actually works – as long as a stator magnet is not depleted, and it doesn’t look like it would be – test plots showing this to be the case have been presented by Steorn and some forum members have come close to reproducing the setup – one of them says he had an 8 hour run before something loosened up. Now none of this is substitute for the 22 Jury members and their report – but it’s pretty damn good.
Coming soon for the cognoscenti 7 of us were selected to test the tech themselves.. That activity will start in a few weeks time.
So – it’s all go: no sign of closing up shop after the London debacle.
Unfortunately, the thread on Steorn's forum has been removed. This is most likely due to the NDA related details Grimer was sharing with the rest of us. It'll be interesting to see if any of that information is verified.
Wednesday, August 15, 2007
hairykrishna directs us to the latest edition of Physics World, which includes an article on Steorn's failed demo. Here are some interesting quotes:
The device consisted of a CD-sized plastic wheel adorned with 16 neodymium magnets that can rotate about two stationary magnets. After being given an initial push, the wheel was supposed to spin freely at about 250 revolutions per minute - not only overcoming air resistance and mechanical friction, but also lifting a small 10g mass.Sean McCarthy is also quoted as saying:
"If we were in the business of doing tricks," he says, "then the demonstration would have worked."
Tuesday, August 14, 2007
maryyugo, a regular commenter here, came across an interesting post over on Steorn's forum by alsetalokin:
Well, for what it's worth, I know of one senior scientist at a well-known (non-academic) institution who applied and was selected for the original "12" jury, signed the NDA and all. Of course this was many months ago now, and I have heard no reports through "back-channels" of any developments since then.In another thread, riterX asks alsetalokin if he'd be able to follow up with his contact:
I, therefore, believe that there at least _was_ a jury, once, containing at least one member with eminent qualifications.
Whether there is still a jury, now, that I doubt. It probably exists "on paper" but I'd bet that, once they all stopped ROTFLTAO, they went back to work at their "real" jobs.
Well, I respect the NDA, and I was sort of waiting for the promised report, after which presumably all could be revealed, but now I see the error in my thinking.I hope alsetalokin can share with us details about his potential contact. More evidence of an active or inactive Jury would go a long way to understanding what Steorn's intentions are.
So, I think I will do just that.
Monday, August 13, 2007
The forums are again available to all anonymous lurkers. These seem to be Sunday only blackouts. Also in the forums today crank lets us know that she has the names of two jury members:
The way I'd look at it is...I was shown the names of two jury members. At any time over the past six months if Sean pissed me off sufficiently (and Sean is good at pissing me and everyone else off ) I could have phoned those scientists and asked them if they really were on the Steorn jury. If they weren't, they could and would have publicly disassociated themselves from the Irish crackpots who were using their name in vain. So if it was a house of cards, it would all have come tumbling down over quite a simple thing.I don't exactly follow her logic, but it is her choice not to follow up on the information that was provided to her. She continues to talk about the Jury:
Therefore...the names he gave me had to be genuine. Therefore...there is a jury. Therefore...anything Sean has stated publicly about the jury has to be real, or jury members would be kicking up a fuss.
How could they be 'planted' members? They're people with pretty illustrious careers, in very famous institutions. Why would they get involved in a scam? What would be in it for them?I'm assuming she is referring to the two jury members that she has direct knowledge of, but I could be wrong.
There is most likely a Jury, what we don't know is where they are in the process of ruling. Steorn has predicted that the Jury will reach a verdict late this year or early next year. In the mean time, we may or may not get additional information from Steorn.
Sunday, August 12, 2007
For all those "lurkers" out there who browse Steorn's forum, you are out of luck, at least temporarily. Magnatrix has again blocked read access to all those not logged in. Back in June, when I published this entry, we went through a similar event. We'll have to wait and see Steorn's official reaction to the change. Remember, both forum administrators do not work for Steorn, but are volunteers. I suggest readers start using the google group Steorb.
In other news, If you haven't been reading messages here and over on the Google Group related to Steorn, Steorn has asked them to change their name, which is now Steorb. My hunch is Steorn won't actually follow through on their legal threats. Consider steornpower.com as an example.
Saturday, August 4, 2007
Today we finally got the official word on the AStream feeds that seemed to indicate that Steorn might be demoing again soon:
While many folks around here tend to give crank a hard time, I appreciate her getting the little bits of news that she can in her position as forum rep. Her statements in the forum normally clarify vs. confuse.
crank: Sad news about the cameras ;-( I asked Sean why they were still working, turns out Steorn booked only the ten days that the demo was supposed to last. So A-Stream have just forgotten to turn off the stream.
Friday, August 3, 2007
The Nodding Donkey has made its way to YouTube. There seems to be some debate about the nature of the video. We've heard exaggerated claims from cynics that Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, waited 20 days before explaining that the video does not demonstrate perpetual motion, and we've heard back from others saying that Sean presented the video as a joke, and he only waited a few minutes before explaining that the nodding donkey is not perpetual motion. While we all wait for something of substance, enjoy the video:
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
Today we learn about a supposed SPDC video involving a Nodding Donkey from almost and zpe:
almost: I would like McCarthy to explain why, in view of the horrible letdown of people who travelled thousands of miles to see an Orbo demonstration, he hasn't posted a video of the machine. He can at least post it privately to his loyal supporters in the SPUD - supporters who vociferously castigated a member who queried whether the Nodding Donkey prototype had Orbo inside, and were made to look foolish by their trust when after a considerable delay Shaun revealed that it didn't. Another 550bhp example, albeit not so egregious since the delay in Shaun's confession was less than the 6 weeks of the big engine.
Later, zpe provided us with this photo, which seems to have disappeared from Steorn's forum. He also has the video, which hopefully will become public soon.
Also today, crank visited Steorn:
It seems like our anonymous trouble maker has hit a nerve with some folks over in Steorn's forum. Lately I've been modding these types of posts. If you're going to post "facts" here, please have something to back them up with.
Given the claims on Steorntracker, which were repeated in this forum, I went into Steorn this morning. I knew it wasn't true, but equally knew there was no point in saying so unless I could say that I'd physically gone in there and checked.
You'll be happy (or unhappy?) to hear that all was normal. Sean hasn't visited the forum recently, so was unaware that he was supposed to be..arrested..bought out by MIB..done a runner..sacked etc. etc. etc..
All employees were present and correct. Including the Frenchman
Friday, July 27, 2007
As maryyugo has pointed out here, Free Energy Tracker made it into James Randi's latest news letter. Also note, ENERGY IS NOT YET FREE! has posted a couple follow up videos of Sean talking at Kinetica. Unfortunately I could not make out what he was saying, if someone finds anything interesting in these videos, feel free to post them here!
Posted by Will Gorman at 8:03 PM
Wednesday, July 25, 2007
An anonymous source has posted youtube videos of demo visitors working on the failed orbo demo device. In the videos we get a better view of what the demo looked like. The third video includes a spinning orbo, although it seems the magnets actually slow the thing down.
Also in the videos, you see a lot of camera flashes, so there should be more photos out there of the entire event. If anyone out there has additional video or photos, feel free to email me at wgorman AT gmail DOT com. Check out the ENERGY IS NOT YET FREE blog for the inside scoop.
Tuesday, July 24, 2007
One of the original video feeds from Steorn's demo earlier this month has come back online, showing us big ben again. This has caused a lot of speculation here and on Steorn's forum that the second attempt at a demo may be happening soon. We'll just have to wait and see.
While we wait, Steorn has provided a nice list of articles, including the not so positive ones, on their website. I guess we'll stick with the old saying, there is no such thing as bad press.
Thursday, July 19, 2007
Today on Steorn's forum, crank questions whether drmike's statement about Scott Little obtaining orbo details and not being able to replicate the device are valid:
crank: drmike is not right in his (reported) remarks about ScottAnd how does crank know this?
Little. Scott Little was given no more information than anyone else.
If he tried to replicate, it was from the hints and clues dropped on
crank: Because when I saw that remark of drmike's quoted in one of theI wish crank could do a little more for us skeptics, we could all use a little bit of evidence. She clearly has more access to Steorn then the rest of us. We'll have to wait to hear what drmike has to say in response.
threads here I texted Sean and asked him. He texted back that Scott
Little had got the same information that everyone else did.
Also this week, many hobbyists have been attempting to build their own Orbos. Here is a video from ZeroFossilFuel that you might enjoy:
Tuesday, July 17, 2007
Here are some of the quotes that I pulled out of the Engadget Interview of Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, if you didn't have three hours to read the whole thing:
Engadget: Do you have a statistic or number of what you estimate the energy efficiency level of your machine is? Is it 110% or 150%?Sean's response to the demo setup:
Sean McCarthy: It varies from configuration to configuration. I think the largest efficiency that we would have physically measured would be about 485%. These numbers can be misleading. For example we might be getting 485% per joule, which means were getting 4.85 J out, but there could be a configuration that's could be delivering 130% efficiency yet delivering 10 joules. So, the technology itself is pretty well researched in terms of punch line efficiency it's 485%, but that wouldn't be the optimum output of the system. Obviously we're more focused on direct power output of a device than the punchline numbers. 485 to 1 is 4.85, but we could easily say, 10 to 12 joules off of a system is going to have a lower punch line efficiency. And power output is obviously the key factor, energy output is obviously the key factor.
"But with respects to what happened, we brought three systems to us from Dublin, three component systems, we don't move them in their operational way, we stripped them down. They are very, very simple and there is not huge configuration to them, but they are very sensitive configurations because there are lots of magnetic loads and so on. We got one of the systems working on the Tuesday night which was the Tuesday before we were going live on Wednesday evening."Sean implies that the units had been built and possibly tested in Dublin before the demo. Up until now, we only heard about the three days the engineers had in London to get the demo working.
Sean's feelings on Dr. Mike's report:
"I can't possibly criticize Doctor Mike for what he said. It's exactly what I would have said, I probably would have been harsher if I had been in his shoes."Sean restates his "no investment" policy:
"We haven't raised a dime since last August and we've said quite simply we will commercialize this is no way, we are not going to sell film rights or book rights whatever the latest scam theory on it is. We're sitting here like everybody else waiting for the results of the jury and we will do other things to try and support the premise that we've made -- understanding completely how ridiculous it sounds."This means more than money to Sean:
"We have a technology, we're putting more than our money behind this. We're putting everything behind this, our reputation and everything behind it, because we believe. That doesn't mean that other people believe, but we do believe, and we do believe in the medium term that this technology will make it to market and that is what we are interested in. The rest is noise."Sean's opinion on skeptics:
"We have to embrace the skepticism. But equally to understand, these are not intended to be slam dunk results, because they won't be. There will always be issues and rightfully so a simple demo, no matter how long it lasts, isn't proof of the claim. Proof of the claim is scientific analysis. But we are going to have to do other things as well. I won't go into details, but the biggest mistake that we've made and obviously we have to learn from our mistakes was to pre-announce the London demo. We've paid the price for that, we won't do it again. But we will be doing probably an awful lot more than we had intended. Basically when it happens we'll be letting people know. It will not be that far away."
Disappointed skeptics, people like Doctor Mike who we dragged half way around the world -- and all I can do is apologize to them and say look it didn't work, but we are going to do it again. It's not the end of the Steorn story.
Here is a link to the conversation I had tonight with Dr. Mike Rosing, our official Steorn skeptic. I've highlighted some of the more interesting bits:
SteornTracker: 485%, there isn't really a way to measure that incorrectly is there?
drmike: Nope. That's a pure fabrication.
SteornTracker: How many papers have they shown you? The one we have mostly heard about indirectly is via your experiment.
drmike: Two, both covering the same topic. One is obviously written for investors, the other for engineers.
SteornTracker: 3 days assembling an already designed and tested demo unit doesn't seem too short of a time, they also claimed to have three of these units
drmike: That's the claim. I don't think so. Why have a lathe in the upstairs shop?
SteornTracker: If you were on the Jury, how long would it take for you to be fed up enough to go public about the situation? Or would you just stay quiet like we've seen so far?
drmike: Good question. I'd probably have given up after 3 months.
SteornTracker: So what do you predict will happen to Steorn over the next few months? Sean has said another demo will take place, do you think he'll try again?
drmike: Yes, I think so. But he'll have it set up in secret and it won't work, so he won't actually tell anyone. In the mean time he'll be hoping the jury gets back to him, but he won't realize he hasn't shown them anything.
SteornTracker: Did Sean talk to you and the SPDC members at all about the transition from the start-stop device to the continuous device? He hinted in April that they were making "progress"
drmike: Nope. He mostly tried to "explain the effect". It was interesting because it was one way communication. Not many people asked questions, and Sean did most of the talking.
SteornTracker: You spent some time in London with EarthTech. They seem like an interesting crowd. What were their impressions of Steorn?
drmike: Mixed. Hal was trying to believe, Scott was trying to help, and Marissa was trying to leave :-)
drmike: So there really is a jury, but so what? They don't do anything, nor are they allowed to see anything.
SteornTracker: What evidence do you have that suggests that?
drmike: Sean said on friday during the public admission of failure of the demo that the jury had not seen a working device yet.
drmike: Scott from EarthTech who is not on the jury, said they got plans and could not reproduce any "over unity" effect.
drmike: So I expect no jury member has duplicated it either.
SteornTracker: You're less in the dark then most of us, and your hypothesis seems to make more sense then the documentary ideas, etc
drmike: I think the observations made while upstairs tell me that it was a one man show. A few engineers with a little skill could have done a much better fake!
SteornTracker: I'm guessing you now would give Steorn less then my .001% chance of having anything, is that correct?
drmike: I started with 10^-25 and I'm at 10^-100 now :-)
Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike :-)
In the interview, Dr. mike said he'd be available in the near future for a group chat. Feel free to ask questions here and I'll set up a chat session in the next few days.
Saturday, July 14, 2007
Today we finally learn who the mysterious user Marissa is. She appeared in Steorn's forum three days ago saying:
"Well, the jury is real, but that's the only refutable comment Mike. Everything
else could be just as you've explained it. Sigh."
crank backed her up with this statement:
"There's an obvious reason how she knows."
And finally we get an even more mysterious answer from Marissa:
"It's not as obvious as you think Crank. But we work in the free energy world.
We hear things. There is a jury - and no, we aren't on it."
So who is Marissa and where does she work? All these comments make sense once you discover that Marissa Little is an experimentalist at EarthTech International (ETI). Dr. Mike gave us a clue when he said "I'm the same age as her father, and I got along well with him too!!". Scott Little is also an Experimentalist at ETI.
It sounds like EarthTech International was in the running to be part of the Jury. We know that they were eventually not selected, but Marissa must have played a role in dealing with Steorn's jury process. So the question still remains, what state is the Jury in today? Are they being strung along, or have they been given unlimited access to Steorn's claims? Have any of the members of the Jury replicated Steorn's experiments? We're all in the dark for now.
Back in August of 2006, in the Guardian Unlimited Article "These men thing they are about to change the world", the author makes this statement:
Last week, frustrated that they couldn't persuade scientists to take their work seriously, McCarthy, Walshe and the other 28 shareholders of Steorn, a privately owned technology research company, took out a full-page advertisement in the Economist. In it, they called upon scientists to form a 12-member jury to decide whether their free-energy system is real, hoaxed, imagined or incorrectly well-intentioned.Someone here recently quoted that number, which made me realize that I should go take a second look at Steorn's Financials [google docs link] [excel link] (thanks anonymous). If there were more than 30 investors listed, I'd know that Steorn took additional funding, like the March 2007 document suggests.
What I found was that there are exactly 30 Steorn investors, two of which hadn't invested until the latest publication. I think this is reasonable evidence that Steorn has not taken any additional funding after their declaration. What do you think?
Update: As you can see in the comments, Thicket points out that according to the spreadsheet, there are actually 34 stock holders. I missed the three class B share holders and also the BES Scheme investment. Unfortunately, the numbers don't add up in either direction now. I guess I'm not that surprised things don't add up ;-(.
Friday, July 13, 2007
Along with so many others, The Economist felt it necessary to chime in on Steorn's failed demo. The article is light on any Steorn specific information. I wish these reporters would do more than quote each other, instead maybe they should try to get to the bottom of what is going on?
In many ways we are stuck here waiting again to see what Steorn's next move will be. Some have posted here saying that it's not worth our time to comment on the subject, and maybe they are right. I'm still intrigued. I want to get to the bottom of this, I want evidence one way or another showing us that this is a hoax, fraud, delusion, or real. Instead we have a company claiming the impossible, who is well funded and seeking publicity, and when they get it the whole thing seems to fall apart.
I just don't get it yet.
Thursday, July 12, 2007
I just got done reading Dr. Mikes full report. You can read it here:
The report reiterates what we've all read about Dr. Mike's trip. I think the main point worth noting is that Dr. Mike does not believe that Steorn is a scam or a hoax, that they really believe what they have. Unfortunately, he cannot go into details about the tech because of his NDA.
Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Matt Cooper of The Last Word did a follow-up interview today with Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn. Sean explains again why the demo failed, but insists that this is a small bump in the road and that we'll be seeing a demo soon. The interview starts around 20 minutes into the recording at lasts for about 5 minutes.
Also today, Sean visited the forum for a while and answered a lot of questions. I've categorized them here:
On the African Pump Situation
JoinTheFun: what's the status of the African pump project?On Dr. Mike
Steorn: The pump I believe is being installed at the moment.
Suomipoika: [asking about the african pump] How is it possible? The device is so fragile that you can't drive one from Dublin to London. Wasn't that the reason you didn't replace the devices with stopstarts from Dublin?
Steorn: As I said we bought three (CM) devices from Dublin in parts, got one working on site (it can take a while to balance the radial loads on the system) and then while under pressure used the parts from the other two systems to try and fix the prime system. It did not work. Thats the facts of the situation, believe it or believe it not.
mrflora: The pump again, Sean... are you saying that now, today, this week, a pump is being installed in Africa that is driven by Orbo overunity technology?
Steorn: The pump is being installed by a local engineering contractor (I do not know the exact schedule), once this is in place we will install the Orbo power supply for it.
FLD: Sean - is the African water pump driven by fuel-less Orbo technology? Yes or no will be fine thanks.
Steorn: It will be fuel-less when the project is completed, at the moment we are only in the process of installing the basic pumping system.
Suomipoika: Do you have a device, which generates OU? Very common opinion here is, that you don't. If you do, why wasn't Dr. Mike able to see that?On the Jury
Steorn: As said the devices that we bought to London failed, that simple, so Mike did not see anything. There is no more to the story.
Suomipoika: Why didn't you take Dr. Mike to Dublin?
Steorn: We had other things that we needed to deal with, again you can spin the matter anyway you want, but these are the facts, we will do the demo soon enough and then lets see where we stand.
observer: Why didn't you invite Dr. Mike to follow the assembly of the device? He would have been in the position to see it working then, even if it was not possible for him to analyze it further.
Steorn: Well I guess that the straight answer is that no engineer wants anyone looking over at them while they work, we where under pressure and having someone looking at our engineers work would not help.
blueletter: What do you say to Dr. Mike's assertion that much of this whole thing lives only inside your head?
Steorn: I guess that in a way I understand his comments, its not true but in the circumstances I doubt that you will believe me.
Suomipoika: Sean! Dr. Mike didn't have possibility to see the device. Who's the next skeptic you're gonna invite and when will this happen?
Steorn: I do not think that we will have a problem finding a credible skeptic next time.
Suomipoika: Sean, you implicate that Dr. Mikes credibility was problem.
1) Are you saying that Dr. Mike wasn't credible?
2) When will this "next time" be? I could come tomorrow, ok to you?
Steorn: Where did I imply Dr. Mike was not credible, seemed like a very smart guy when I met him for the limited period of time that we had.
Suomipoika: I asked you: "Dr. Mike didn't have possibility to see the device. Who's the next skeptic you're gonna invite and when will this happen?"
And you answered: "I do not think that we will have a problem finding a credible skeptic next time."
Of course this implies that Dr. Mike wasn't credible.
But next question is: When can NEXT skeptic-visit happen at earliest?
Steorn: To your mind it may imply that, there is no intent to imply that. The next skeptics visit will be reported on after it happens.
JoinTheFun: Any word of the jury as to when they think they'll be ready ?On the Failed Demo
Steorn: I'm not going to comment on the Jury process.
Speccy: In a couple of Irish newspaper articles last week, it was stated that the jury result was due next year. Is this now the case, or can we still expect a result in 2007?
Steorn: I said that I did not have a timeline for the results, which is the facts of the matter, I have not had a chance to read any of the media stuff yet, so I am not sure what was printed.
SteornTracker: Back in April you mentioned that there would be a second quarter Jury update. Are you still planning on providing an update? When do you think that update will be available?
Steorn: Hi ST, have not even thought about the subject at the moment.
pcstru4: How come you say you have been so busy for the last few months preparing a demo, then pull the excuse that you only gave the engineers three days?Recording their phone calls? I don't understand that comment.
Steorn: Its as simple as stated, we tried to install them in a few hours under pressure, we made some mistakes and the demo did not happen. So few will believe the story, its up to them, its what happened.
couldbe: Sean, why did you attempt to demo a device that did no appreciable work? From what I've read here, a lightweight disk can be made to spin for a long time with very little input. Wouldn't it be more convincing to demo an orbo with its innards hidden, but one that did real work?
Steorn: Well the intention was to show the 'raw' device and then the system doing work, at this point they are just failed intentions so I do not expect anyone to believe it.
JoinTheFun: There are a couple of days left in the Kinetica. Any chance of showing the world a working device these coming days ?
majicmagneticmoment: MALARKY! I am an engineer and have been for over 30 years. I have always have had someone looking over my shoulder and have learned to expect it. Where did you get your engineers? France?
Steorn: I have spent a lot of my engineering life with people staring at me, so I know the feeling. But at the end of the day no one was looking at us while we worked (lots of people taking pics of us and recording our phone calls as we came and went).
buzzlightyear: I could understand if there was to be some nervosity between the investors right now. Do they actively follow the company developments, or do they act as distant financial investors? How are they taking the demo failure?SPDC Questions
Steorn: Clearly no one involved in the company is happy about the failed demo, but despite this we also need to keep perspective - its a failed demo full stop. It has shaken to the core any confidence that people not involved with the company have, and this is understandable. But we know what we have to things are not as dire as people would like to make them. We will do the demo, and then move on.
JoinTheFun: How is the overall mood in your team ?
Steorn: Clearly it was not a good week. But we are 'back in the saddle' and a lot more motivated than we were a few weeks ago, so in a strange kind of way the failure of the demo may in fact speed up our route to market, we will see.
tony: Why are you even attempting to demo before the Jury verdict is out? p.s. I dont understand why you would even try to convince anyone before this. Surely you should be pragmatic, what if the verdict goes against you?
Steorn: It seemed like a good week to put ourselves back on the agenda, we got on the agenda but for the wrong reasons.
blueletter: Did you sir, or did you not, get piss drunk on the very night of both your infamous demo debacle and your wife's foot breaking incident?
Steorn: Nope. And no my wife did not break her foot kicking me around the place, she broke it the day before we went to London.
rosco: Are the public relations company behind your strategy? If so isn't it time to get rid of them as it seems like you've now used up nine lives in public opinion terms
Steorn: Sure it may seem that way to you at the moment, bottom line is that it is a failed demo, embarrasing for sure, but no more than that. We will do a demo, then lets see what happens.
korkskrew: I still don't understand the purpose of a demo. It seems like a lot of expense for no real business reason. Is it just for our entertainment? Seems like a lot of money and effort for that.
Steorn: With a claim so wild we decided that we need to do multiple things to errode the view that we do not have what we claim to have. This event failed, very clearly failed, but we believe that it was worth the effort and will do the demo. Our prime investment was in marketing materials and these will be used for the rescheduled event when we decide to do it.
FLD: This event failed, very clearly failed, but we believe that it was worth the effort errrm...it was an utter failure and made you a laughing stock but it was worth the effort?
Steorn: As in we believe that it is worth the effort doing public demos, this one did not work out but we will for sure do public demos again in the future.
JoinTheFun: Can you tell us how recent events have affected the SPDCites ? Did you meet Babcat ?I find it interesting that Sean is willing to speculate on a pretty significant SPDC event when he hasn't looked into the details of it yet.
Steorn: I had a chance to meet a few of them for an extended period on Friday and Saturday, I have not had a chance to head into the SPDC, but we do consider the SPDC key to the Steorn project and so have a lot of confidence to regain with them. We are pulling together a plan to do that.
Kaiser Jive Albino: How long would it take an engineer at Steorn to build a working unit from scratch, with off the shelf parts? Will individuals be able to replicate it with "minimal" tooling? Thanks for your answers, and great to see you back btw!
Steorn: Good to be back (I think) - the ease of replication for a hobbist has been a concern, however I do believe that one of the SPDC folks got a system running for 8 hours or so with what looks like pretty minimal parts, but I have not had a chance to look into this in any detail yet.
Upcoming Steorn Activity
hugojpinto: Do you realize and believe that doing a convincing demo + technology showcase + providing straight replication access is a critical piece of in gaining confidence in the near future?I think Steorn's new strategy of not announcing things before they happen is a pretty good idea!
Steorn: Yes - and perhaps even a bit more than that.
meta: On openness, in the post cancellation video you mentioned something about being less cryptic and covert, and pushing Steorn into a more open direction. Can you expand on that?
Steorn: We have plans in place to deal with the confidence issues, but I will not be pre-announcing these, they will happen and let people debate them at that time.
prprior: Sean, for the sake of those that don't think this is a lie, hoax, or dilusion, why can't you post a video of at least a partial orbo? Enough to conceal any secrets with the design, but showing enough to ease a dry tongue.
Steorn: As stated we will be doing stuff, I will not be going into what it is or when it will happen but we acknowledge that we do need to some additional things after the failure of the demo.
pcstru4: I'll try once more : How many functional OU devices do you have back in dublin - not test rigs but actual devices which demonstrate OU. Please give a number for Stop/Start & CM.I'm not sure if Sean is saying that he won't answer the question, or no, there are currently no OU devices in Dublin.
Steorn: At the moment no.
Suomipoika: Sean! Are your all OU-devices so fragile that they'll break
a) if transported by car or
b) if lights are too bright?
meta: Sean, I take it you missed my above question to you about calorimetry?
Steorn: I will not go into the specific tests that are going to be conducted, or the testing process in any detail.
meta: Why have you not done calorimetry yet?
Steorn: As I stated before I am not going to go into details of planned tests, however we have tested for thermal 'energy account' balancing and it does not even come close to balancing the energy equation.
/: Sean, we have heard that many actual Orbo-based systems have been made by external companies (like the "validation toys", for the Africa pump, etc.). Can you tell us some rough figure how many third-party engineering companies have been involved so far?
buzzlightyear: Steorn has been open about the marketing and financial partners, but there is no information about technology partners. Can you name one of the technology partners? Like the company that you work with in the Netherlands?
Steorn: Our partners work for us under mutual NDA, so nope I will not be discussing it in the public domain.
jorb: Have the investors seen a working OU device?
Steorn: Again I am not going to get into who has seen what, all people involved in Steorn or working for us are under mutual NDA. So I am just not going to answer questions on the Jury, our tech partners, staff or investors.
aber0der: Sean, do you plan to update the site re the licensing model? "Further details will be made available during the first half of 2007."
Steorn: I will have to follow-up and see where we are at with this.
After attending the London Demo on Steorn's behalf as the forum skeptic, Dr. Mike Rosing has posted his opinion of the situation here on Steorn's forums. I've included the entire text below:
I will write up a full report and post it on my own web site in a few days. I wrote something on the plane which is good but not complete. I suspect one could write aWe'll be hearing more from Dr. Mike soon with a full report, which he started working on while flying back to the states. Right after Dr. Mike posted this, a new unknown forum member named "Marissa" appeared and said this:
book about all the experiences we've had here.
My opinion - and it really is only my opinion - is that Sean lives in a world of delusion. His greatest strength is the ability of convince people of things, and it is also his greatest weakness. I am certain that Sean has seen a "start - stop" device operating. That it never existed outside his mind doesn't matter.
There are a lot of questions that remain unanswered, but let's look at a few simple ones.
Why would Steorn send a skeptical forum rep to see their core technology if Steorn did not really believe it? As others have pointed out, if this were a hoax or scam, something would have worked. From my direct observations of the people, there is true belief here.
Why would Sean claim that 5 bearings were broken and he sent someone to Eindhoven to get more? Because he saw it happen. Like the story about the famous mathematician who talked to people nobody else could see (the movie was "A Beautiful Mind") I think Sean has really seen things work. The rest of us never will.
Sean said at one point that the jury validation was the most important thing to Steorn. At this point I think the jury is also in his mind. He probably talks to them often. He did say they have not seen any devices. How could he have a demo, have the jury be the most important thing to the company, and not have had any jury member see anything? Because nothing exists.
As I said, there are a great many details and questions to answer, and probably we'll never get answers to the more interesting ones. It was an honor and a privledge to have met everyone here and at Kinetica and I will do my best to get all the parts back to everyone who loaned me stuff and made it possible for me to help out.
Marissa: Well, the jury is real, but that's the only refutable comment Mike. Everything else could be just as you've explained it. Sigh.Who is Marissa? An employee of Steorn? Hopefully we'll learn a lot more from Dr. Mike's report.
pcstru4: How do you know?
crank: There's an obvious reason how she knows.
Marissa: It's not as obvious as you think Crank. But we work in the free energy world. We hear things. There is a jury - and no, we aren't on it.
Tuesday, July 10, 2007
Today in the Forums, Duracell points out that Matt Cooper of The Last Word interviewed Sean last Wednesday, before the demo collapse. Here is a link to the audio interview. Matt had a previous interview with Sean this past May.
The interview starts at around 49:30 minutes into the mp3, and is about 5 minutes long. There isn't much content in the interview, again we hear Sean making bold claims. One interesting note is that Sean states that they'll be making changes to the device during the demo. I'm not quite sure where he was going with that.
At the end of the interview, Sean states that others may have found this type of technology, but that their battle with public opinion and scientific opinion was too difficult to win. I have to disagree, opinion has nothing to do with it. It's all about science and evidence, which we've seen none so far.
Also in the forums, Axle published CAD drawings of his best guess as to what Sean was holding for reporters during his photo shoot:Finally, Magnatrix refutes Grimer's claim that only 1 of the original lucky 7 are still messing around with Orbo:
This is about the third time I've seen a post about the 7 being down to 1... where is this information comming from?
I pretty sure that this is total bull-puckys.
I heard from two of them the other day & they didn't mention anything about quitting.
Yesterday the article "The perpetual myth of free energy" appeared in on the BBC website. Professor Sir Eric Ash attended the demo and was able to interview the CEO of Steorn, Sean McCarthy. His analysis was blunt:
I believe that Mr McCarthy is truly convinced of the validity of his invention. It is, in my view, a case of prolonged self deception.I find it interesting that he didn't pick up on the body language that others pointed out during the Friday Q&A. Eric Ash left the interview believing that Sean is deceiving himself vs. simply deceiving others.
Also today, Spiritual Beggar adds to his wonderful collection of Steorn Comics:
Finally, yesterday a fellow reader sent me this link to an overunity.com discussion related to how the Orbo demo may work. RoamZero posted this visimag image on page three of the discussion:
Sunday, July 8, 2007
There was a substantial amount of activity in the forums today. We'll start off with a visit from Sean:
Folks,Sean stays around for a little bit and answers a few questions:
Sorry that I have not been able to come in here and take the beatings, I will try to get some time over the next few weeks.
Fiksu_Vekotin: Does this failed demo change your plans on releasing the tech in anyway?
Steorn: Our strategy will remain the same, however it is fair to say that we will to do some different things at a tactical level, but I am not going to comment on what they might be at this stage.
genesis:what can u say about info leak from DrMike--is this true----did this impacted to his visit?
Steorn: I have not seen any 'leaked' info, I have not had a chance to be on the net till now. Hows my health - grand, at the end of the day I droped the ball, I did it in a public way but its done, I have to dust myself off and get on with it.A cryptic leaked info debate between crank and drmike can be seen over in this thread. crank claims to have deleted a post from drmike with proprietary information in it. she then goes on to say that she and drmike worked out their differences in a private conversation.
jimboot:Any news on the new SPDC intake yet?Sean makes a good point here. The failed demo doesn't do Steorn very much damage, considering that most everyone didn't believe them in the first place. What it does is do is attract more folks who may have a proprinsity of believe for this type of thing.
Steorn: Hi Jim, I met with a few of the new SPDC folks yesterday for quite a while. I will be following up on getting thier accounts set up when I get back to the office.
probus:how do you want to regain credibility, Sean? dont you think that it is almost impossible to do so?
Steorn: Well I guess that many would say that the nature of the claim never allowed me to be viewed as credible, for sure we will have to do something to regain the confidence of those who hope we are right, we will do that.
genesis: SEAN----free energy is what u believe or is what u say to get science on this.....PLEASE answer if u can......
Steorn: We have measured every energy source that it is possible to measure and hence we are confident in our claim that it is free energy. There is always the possibility that the tech taps ZPE/Dark Energy, but it is just not possible to measure these. Even if we are tapping ZPE/Dark Energy the net result to all of us is the same, the energy is free.
sb2020: You said you would have something to show - either Stop/start or CM. Why not show the original config when the CM failed?
Steorn: The reason that the demo failed was at the end of the day the pressure put on our engineers to get the system running in the demo case in a few hours. This compressed time frame forced us to do things (replacing parts on the fly) that would not have happend if the pressure was not there. It was my call to do this in the short time available to us on site, it was a bad call and not one that I am going to repeat by pre-announcing a time frame. When the demo is done next time we will install the tech in a calm and rational manner, then announce it.
probus: i m convinced Sean, you are absolutely aware of the fact that it its not about hope but about hard scientific facts and indeed a working device. do you think you and your company is able to respond within the next 2 coming months in a way that will satisfy all the disappointed people?
Steorn: We will respond, we have to, but I am not going to discuss time frames at this point.
Supposedly the Jury will be delivering at the end of this year, so the time frame for any response from Steorn will most likely come before then.
Sean mentioned in the Friday update that the old configuration has been known not to survive a car trip. These devices seem to be very fragile! I'm guessing it will be a while before my cell phone battery is replaced.
b2020: So why not show the old config - would have saved some face?
Steorn: The straight answer to the is that the 'stop-start' configs are not as robust as the CM systems. You may view it as saving face, but for me the key issue is not to compound the error I made.
Dr. Mike gave a short update on his trip:
drmike: No shift for me. I'm still really skeptical.
twinbee: So can we interpret that to mean you haven't seen the device in action yet? Didn't Steorn show you anything?
drmike: I got to see what all the other spudders saw. It was the same thing that Steorn sent me in a tech report. Sean is actually thinking about releasing it all to open source - but wants some NDA to cover ip so needs to think about it.
You'll get a full report when I get back home on a real Linux machine. I can use anything, but I like comfortIt's was a bit unclear, but it sounds like he'll be back Wednesday for the full report.
One last item of interest. crank today revealed a little bit about what SPDC'ers know regarding the manufacturer of Steorn's toy:
Fiksu_Vekotin:By the way Crank, a long time ago there was talk about a "well known" partner that Steorn had. I know you know who it is, but does the SPDC know it?It's hard to believe that the details of this well known partner haven't leaked out of the SPDC along with all the other leaks.
crank: Yes, the SPDC knows who it is. The SPDC has been given basically all the same info that I was given at the start, plus some additional stuff..
As drmike put it "too many threads to scan!!"
Jason Bradbury posted these questions earlier this morning. I've done my best at initial answers, but feel free to comment and give more detail where appropriate:
1. How long did the engineers have to build the Orbo demo?
According to Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, he gave a team of engineers three days to build the demo out of clear Plexiglas. In his talk on Friday, Sean said that Steorn arrived in London on Sunday with three systems. It's unclear if the three days mentioned were before Sunday, or if they had three days to assemble existing systems between Sunday and Wednesday of last week.
2. Who are the engineers - are they Steorn employees.
They are either Steorn employees or contractors. Sean has stated that he has four PhD's under contract working for Steorn until the end of this year. It is unclear if the engineers Sean refers to are employees or contractors.
3. What is the position of this forum re Steorn - who set up this blog, when and why?
You can read my initial post back in March of this year to get a feel for why I setup this blog. Basically I was a forum lurker, and I figured I should turn my addiction into something of value for others. I attempt to document events that might be relevant to understanding what Steorn is all about.
4. What is Steorn's stated aim in the next, say, 7 days.
According to Sean, Steorn engineers are still working on the demo, but he doesn't want to put a deadline on when or if a demo will occur. Unfortunately we don't know what other things Steorn are up to at the moment. In the past, Sean has said there will be a Q2 Jury update, but based on the Q1 update who knows when or if that might actually take place.
5. What does this blog think about a company that manages information like a Labour press secretary :-)
If it were me, I'd do it differently. Assuming they have what they claim to have, being as tight lipped as possible seems like a reasonable approach. It's the other side of Steorn, their Web Forum, SPDC Club, Economist Ads, YouTube Videos, and most recently highly public demo failure that I don't really understand.
6. If you were to give a percentage on the overall feeling on this site as to the reality or fiction of Orbo - what would that be (i.e - about 70% of commenters believe Orbo won't work)
I'm a skeptic. Most commenters here are also skeptics or cynics. I'll give Steorn my original odds of 0.001% of having something. I'm guessing a lot of my readers give them lower odds then that.
7. What is the most damning piece of information that has surfaced in the last few days
In the last few days, clearly the management of the demo hints at best incompetent management, at worst some sort of fraud or scam. The excuses provided by Steorn don't seem to be realistic. In the past few months, there have been some loose ends. One of the biggest issues that Steorn hasn't addressed is the March 2007 investment of 8 million euros, after declaring that Steorn would take no more investment money after August 2006. Since August, the most damning piece of information is really the claim itself. Why make such a claim without providing any evidence?
8. What piece of information in the last few days makes you think we could be about to witness a working Free Energy Device?
Unfortunately all the information over the last few days has pointed in the opposite direction. Some members of the press were able to take photos of Sean holding a demo device, and Steorn did go through a lot of trouble setting up webcams, renting out the Kinetica Museum, printing t-shirts and making cute posters. While it's baffling to me that someone would go through all this trouble without actually having a working model of what they claimed, Steorn did it.
9. Who is Dr Mike - or at least - what's his relation to this blog and his credentials for being at the demo?
Was he sent by this blog? Does he run it?
How Dr. Mike ended up in London is an interesting story. Earlier this year, Steorn offered to have a skeptical forum member with a physics background come to Steorn, under NDA, and investigate their claims. This member of the forum would be able to report back to us on their opinion, without giving away any technical details about the device. The original volunteer had a falling out with Steorn, and Dr. Mike took his place as the forum representative. Dr. Mike frequently posts comments on this blog, and he is one of the central figures in this puzzle at the moment due to this special situation, so I frequently blog about him. For more details about Dr. Mike, see this post. Originally Dr. Mike was going to visit Steorn headquarters, but Steorn chose to have him attend the demo instead. Sean McCarthy stated that Dr. Mike would have a couple of days before the demo to do tests on the demo device, but unfortunately this didn't take place. We're all still waiting for Dr. Mike to return and give his opinion on the demo. He'll be returning Tuesday of next week.
.... (Aaargh - all so confusing and yet so interesting?!)
This whole ordeal has been both confusing and interesting. There is a part of me that hopes it's true. There is a part of me that knows it can't be. We're all just going along for the ride. The real truth hasn't been revealed yet, whether it involves a set of plans for a device that will change the world, or a few sets of handcuffs we just don't know. If it isn't real, we're not even quite sure what the whole point of it is.
Steorn has raised 14 million euros for this venture, you'd think if this were a scam, they would have been long gone by now. Instead they are creating a club and updating the public every now and then on a supposed Jury process, which no one can really be certain is happening. Pretty confusing and interesting. Thanks for your questions Jason.
Saturday, July 7, 2007
We had our first quiet day in a while. Today in the forums, Dr. Mike gives us this update:
I got way to smashed last night to join the party this evening. There were a lot of people let into the kinetica site today around 11:00 this morning. Sean again profusely appologized, then answered a few questions. After that, we all went upstairs and several people played with rotors and stators and neos while Sean gave some descriptions of the core technology.We're not sure what type of agreement Dr. Mike has with Steorn about releasing his opinion on the past few days at the moment. Hopefully we'll learn soon what events transpired. The whole bit about SPDC members playing with magnets doesn't surprise me at all :-). I wasn't under the impression that Steorn had given them the know-how to actually build an Orbo, so my hunch is that they are just playing around with magnets.
Sean said the main reason he had problems was the short time scale he gave the engineers. So he will not make any decisions for the next few days while the dust settles and he will give the engineers as much time as they need. If they have something before the end of the week, he may turn things back on - but he made no promises this time.
I left around 16:30 when most people headed off to the pub. I had to go back to my hotel to recover from last night out - there is no way I can keep up with these Irish drinkers!!!
Patience, persistence, truth,
PS - I got to wear the "drmike" t-shirt today!
Also, I would like to give some credit to Steorn's forum administrators. All though we love to hate them, they've been doing a fair job in my opinion moderating these past few days. It's gotta be stressful for them. Remember, crank and Magnatrix are not Steorn employees and are volunteer moderators.
Friday, July 6, 2007
Frank Grimer, a former SPDC member as of today, had a falling out with Steorn due to the botched demo. It all started with this comment from Grimer:
The faithful have been told not to post on this forum until the demo starts. I regard the 6pm time when it was supposed to start as a virtual start (bit like virtual particles) and therefore I have been posting ever since. At the very outset of this forum I suggested that people were gutless for not using their own names and hiding behind pseudonyms. I was heavily criticised for that attitude but it would seem that I am being proved correct.I'm not sure what to think of Steorn asking the SPDC members not to comment on the forum. This probably was to protect the SPDC from accidentally leaking additional information that they were given about the demo. We now know the leak over on Steorn's Orbo was 100% dead on.
The SPUD group are hiding behind their NDAs.
Grimer's melt down continued:
It would seem that the only thing that's going to get broken round here is my NDA.
And what are Steorn going to do about it? Sue me? You are having a laugh. :bigsmile:
To sue me they would have to produce their perpetual motion machine in court to prove to the judge that they weren't lying. I can't see the judge being very impressed if the present performance is any guide. Piss-up and brewery springs to mind. :wink:
That would be an interesting court case to track. A cryptic Irish free energy company vs. an NDA melt down.
At some point in the discussion, Grimer posted a thread from the SPDC forum into Steorn's open public forum. crank removed the post, primarily due to the fact that it contained SPDC members names. Also, Grimer may be auctioning his NDA paperwork off on E-Bay and donating the money to African children.
Now Grimer is convinced that Steorn is some kind of cult. His guess is as good as any at the moment.
I think all of this highlights an important point. Don't sign an NDA with a company that has the possibily of being fraudulent or a cult. From Steorn's perspective, don't have 200+ people sign an NDA and expect them to keep your secrets. Clearly any information up to now in the SPDC is most likely leaked, and now I doubt Steorn will share any additional sensitive information with this group.
If Steorn is up to separating out the believers from the rest of us, I think this whole debacle did a pretty good job of it.
Here is the Q&A session on video, thanks to Zen Master Lee in Steorn's Forum:
Sean states that due to this blunder, which he takes full responsibility for, there may be a need to re-evaluate their cryptic approach. Who knows what will happen next.
Also, Sean mentions that the engineers are still working on fixing the problem, but he's not going to commit to a deadline for when they get it working. He even suggested that next week is possible.
meta just posted this analysis on Sean's watch bearings comment:
What I found curious is Sean said they were using bearings from the watch industry, which are usually "jeweled bearings", they are designed to give very low drag-a jewel with a steel pivot running in it There are some small plain and ball bearings used too but...even small 1/4" x 1/8" neos throw some big shock loads when you run them past each other. I do not see watch type jeweled bearings surviving very long, they are not designed to take much load, or shock, at all. Nor do I have much confidence in any other tiny small bearing used in watches... this revelation about watch bearings just boggles my mind.
Whitelite is the first to report details from Steorn's 3pm Update:
Anyway it was open to the public at that specific time and there were lot's of people taking pictures and filming, (with no objections from Steorn), so I'm sure someone will stick something on YouTube in no time, (if they haven't done it already!).I'll post any additional information from others in this blog entry, if more appears.
The general gist of the discussion was Sean apologising profusely about the lack of any demo or device, (at that time), and basically taking the blame for the whole thing and saying that everyone else at Steorn was advising that the 3 days Sean requested the engineers to make the demo machine was too short.3 days to build the demo unit? I'm sure a lot more time went into finding quotes for posters, etc.
I talked to a nice bloke who is a Kinetica staff member and I believe he said that Kinetica could still host things up to the 16th if the wanted but beyond that there are some major building works going on next door, (like digging up the pavements), so I can't see the demo continuing beyond there. Incidentally the guy was very complimetary about Steorn and he said Kinetica had a great relationship with them.From Kinetica's perspective, this must all be some form of art project. I doubt it a botched over unity demo will heart their credibility at all. I hope we get a more detailed account of the Q&A portion of the update.
I took some screen shots of the gathering for your enjoyment:
Here are a few recent articles and blogs highlighting Steorn's failure to produce a demo:
I4U News - Steorn Orbo Demo delayed until further Notice
To cite a friend of mine who reads every issue of P.M. magazine: "This is one big marketing gag". It is just not clear what the benefit would be for the company. Engadget - Steorn Orbo: canceled
Holy snakeoil Batman, The Steorn Orbo exhibition has been canceled. According to a press release by Steorn CEO (and lead shyster) Sean McCarthy, the company "will explore alternative dates for the public demonstration." Yeah, right.Respectful Insolence - Repeat after me: Conservation of energy precludes perpetual motion machines
After falling for such claims enough times, you'd think that journalists would go back to the physics textbooks and read up on the basics, you know, like the Three Laws of Thermodynamics. You'd especially think that a techy website like Engadget would know better than to hype this stuff without a bit more of the appropriate level of skepticism.Belfast Telegraph - Irish firm's display of 'free-energy' machine delayed
You'd be wrong.
NewsFactor - Perpetual Energy Demo Runs into Technical Difficulties
CBC News - Energy-from-nothing device fails to move
The CEO of Steorn, Sean McCarthy, has publicly announced that the Kinetica Demo of Steorn's Orbo will be postponed until further notice:
Folks,Steorn has also posted a press release regarding the decision:
We have had to make the unfortunate decision to deffer the public demonstration of our technology that was due to start on the 4th. I am very sorry that we have had to take this decision, I will provide a more detailed explanation of the reasons behind the decision later.
I would like to invite any of the forum members (SPDC or otherwise) who are in London to meet me at 15:00 here in Kinetica, were I will be available to answer any questions.
Very sorry about this, hope to see some of you at 15:00.
Further to Steorn’s announcement yesterday (5th July) regarding the technical difficulties experienced during the installation of its “Orbo” technology at the Kinentica Museum in London, Steorn has decided to postpone the demonstration until further notice.
Sean McCarthy CEO stated that “technical problems arose during the installation of the demonstration unit in the display case on Wednesday evening. These problems were primarily due to excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area. Attempts to replace those parts affected by the heat led to further failures and as a result we have to postpone the public demonstration until a future date.”
He continued that “we apologise for the inconvenience caused to all the people who had made arrangements to visit the demonstration or were planning on viewing the demonstration online.”
Over the next few weeks the company will explore alternative dates for the public demonstration.
Thursday, July 5, 2007
"Too bad that Richard claims not to understand words like Entropy and Conservation. "
"Some of these guys had traveled a very long way to check out the Steorn exhibition, needless to say they were quite upset that it had not yet opened."Another reader points us to this photo of Sean holding an Orbo:
If anyone scanned in the whole print article, let me know. The photo looks like the same hands and shirt that held the Orbo in Silicon Republic's article:
And so now we're still waiting on a higher resolution photo of the device. Hopefully Steorn will solve their technical problems and get the device on display. Then we can have some better photos, and something more to talk about then one of the most important laws, Murphy's.
One of our readers was able to get this photo of the lab where Steorn is working on the device:
"Attached are 2 pictures of the upstairs of Kinetica-Museum which Steorn are using as a temporary workshop. You can see a perspex disc, blu tack, a drill, a hammer and a hack saw. Over unity it would seem does not seem to require more than a few basic household tools! Though those hot lights clear play havoc with the blu tack!!!"
You can also see pictures of the red jacketed Steorn employee I vented my spleen at around 10.00am, telling him that I had never in my 20 years in technology sales and marketing seen such an incredible display of incompetence. He had no answer to the most obvious of questions. He presented himself as a spokesman for Steorn.
Most tellingly he admitted before 4 witnesses that there was no load bearing Orbo device inside the Kinetica museum. No weights being lifted by any device. Just a spinning Orbo (still requiring fixing) . He explicitly said that "the load bearing device is back in Dublin".