Sunday, July 8, 2007

An Active Day in the Forum

There was a substantial amount of activity in the forums today. We'll start off with a visit from Sean:

Folks,

Sorry that I have not been able to come in here and take the beatings, I will try to get some time over the next few weeks.

Thanks,

Sean
Sean stays around for a little bit and answers a few questions:
Fiksu_Vekotin: Does this failed demo change your plans on releasing the tech in anyway?

Steorn:
Our strategy will remain the same, however it is fair to say that we will to do some different things at a tactical level, but I am not going to comment on what they might be at this stage.
genesis:what can u say about info leak from DrMike--is this true----did this impacted to his visit?
Steorn: I have not seen any 'leaked' info, I have not had a chance to be on the net till now. Hows my health - grand, at the end of the day I droped the ball, I did it in a public way but its done, I have to dust myself off and get on with it.
A cryptic leaked info debate between crank and drmike can be seen over in this thread. crank claims to have deleted a post from drmike with proprietary information in it. she then goes on to say that she and drmike worked out their differences in a private conversation.
jimboot:Any news on the new SPDC intake yet?

Steorn:
Hi Jim, I met with a few of the new SPDC folks yesterday for quite a while. I will be following up on getting thier accounts set up when I get back to the office.

probus:
how do you want to regain credibility, Sean? dont you think that it is almost impossible to do so?

Steorn: Well I guess that many would say that the nature of the claim never allowed me to be viewed as credible, for sure we will have to do something to regain the confidence of those who hope we are right, we will do that.
Sean makes a good point here. The failed demo doesn't do Steorn very much damage, considering that most everyone didn't believe them in the first place. What it does is do is attract more folks who may have a proprinsity of believe for this type of thing.
genesis: SEAN----free energy is what u believe or is what u say to get science on this.....PLEASE answer if u can......:wink:

Steorn: We have measured every energy source that it is possible to measure and hence we are confident in our claim that it is free energy. There is always the possibility that the tech taps ZPE/Dark Energy, but it is just not possible to measure these. Even if we are tapping ZPE/Dark Energy the net result to all of us is the same, the energy is free.

sb2020:
You said you would have something to show - either Stop/start or CM. Why not show the original config when the CM failed?

Steorn: The reason that the demo failed was at the end of the day the pressure put on our engineers to get the system running in the demo case in a few hours. This compressed time frame forced us to do things (replacing parts on the fly) that would not have happend if the pressure was not there. It was my call to do this in the short time available to us on site, it was a bad call and not one that I am going to repeat by pre-announcing a time frame. When the demo is done next time we will install the tech in a calm and rational manner, then announce it.

probus:
i m convinced Sean, you are absolutely aware of the fact that it its not about hope but about hard scientific facts and indeed a working device. do you think you and your company is able to respond within the next 2 coming months in a way that will satisfy all the disappointed people?

Steorn: We will respond, we have to, but I am not going to discuss time frames at this point.

Supposedly the Jury will be delivering at the end of this year, so the time frame for any response from Steorn will most likely come before then.

b2020: So why not show the old config - would have saved some face?

Steorn: The straight answer to the is that the 'stop-start' configs are not as robust as the CM systems. You may view it as saving face, but for me the key issue is not to compound the error I made.
Sean mentioned in the Friday update that the old configuration has been known not to survive a car trip. These devices seem to be very fragile! I'm guessing it will be a while before my cell phone battery is replaced.

Dr. Mike gave a short update on his trip:
drmike: No shift for me. I'm still really skeptical.
twinbee: So can we interpret that to mean you haven't seen the device in action yet? Didn't Steorn show you anything?

drmike: I got to see what all the other spudders saw. It was the same thing that Steorn sent me in a tech report. Sean is actually thinking about releasing it all to open source - but wants some NDA to cover ip so needs to think about it.

And finally:
You'll get a full report when I get back home on a real Linux machine. I can use anything, but I like comfort :smile:
It's was a bit unclear, but it sounds like he'll be back Wednesday for the full report.


One last item of interest. crank today revealed a little bit about what SPDC'ers know regarding the manufacturer of Steorn's toy:
Fiksu_Vekotin:By the way Crank, a long time ago there was talk about a "well known" partner that Steorn had. I know you know who it is, but does the SPDC know it?

crank: Yes, the SPDC knows who it is. The SPDC has been given basically all the same info that I was given at the start, plus some additional stuff..
It's hard to believe that the details of this well known partner haven't leaked out of the SPDC along with all the other leaks.

As drmike put it "too many threads to scan!!"

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

This whole thing is a level of bizarreness I have never seen. In fact the only thing that seems apt is this quote I've been wanting to use from Futurama:

Fry: Bender, if this is a scam, I don't get it. You already have my power of attorney.

JTerry said...

@ Crank:

Your comments to Dr. Mike are outrageous. You accuse Dr. Mike of not getting along with Steorn and that this was the reason he was not allowed to see anything. That is the height of arrogance. Dr. Mike was a self-confessed skeptic from day 1 of his appearance on the Steorn site and over here. He made his position known throughout. Steorn challenged HIM to conduct experiments and even to come and test their device; in fact, they paid for him to do so. Steorn specifically promised two full days with the thing prior to the demo. Dr. Mike got none of that. Steorn was well aware that Dr. Mike was an opposing party and disagreed fundamentally with a stunning claim tied to high emotions on both sides.

You cite as a reason for Steorn's failure to provide him the promised technology for inspection that he did not intend to honor the much vaunted "NDA". Yet the rest of us know that Dr. Mike posted very little at all before leaving for London, was absolutely silent the first few days he was there before the demo started (which is when he should have been examining the thing) and still only made very limited posts thereafter to check in. In fact, he has not posted all all on this blog. If Steorn had no trust in Dr. Mike's confidentiality, they should never have made this promise or agreed to host him in London. Steorn cannot now be heard to argue that they did not trust Dr. Mike as all of their concerns were known to them before he was invited to London and they proceeded despite those concerns. What this would indicate to me is that Steorn was deceptive in making that offer as they never intended to allow him the promised inspection in the first place, a condition which could very well be grounds for invalidation of the NDA depending upon its terms.

Whether he has a "good relationship" with Steorn is wholly irrelevant. What was relevant was Steorn's promise that he examine the technology; another promise like the demo and so many other promises made by Steorn that failed to materialize. Yet you would force the blame for this onto Dr. Mike rather than where it rightfully belongs; squarely with Steorn. It was not Dr. Mike's responsibility to maintain good relations, and he owned no duty, zero, nothing of any kind, to members of any forum. Dr. Mike's agreement with Steorn was between Steorn and Dr. Mike; not with you, or any other member of this or any other forum. If there is any non-legal, humanisitic duty owned here, then it is a duty owed by Steorn to deal honestly with the many fervent believers their cause has engendered. To date, Steorn has failed to live up to that duty if any allege that such duties exist, and I surely do not.

To claim he was using his NDA as a "weapon" against Steorn is also complete nonesense. The fact that all persons who are in any way connected to Steorn including you have to sign that silly NDA was a matter of well known public record long before the notion of even inviting Dr. Mike to London or even a London demo was ever known or discussed with anyone. For Dr. Mike to rely upon that as a reason for not talking, and specifically pointing out that he is prevented from doing so because of the NDA, is not only acceptable but (if this were a legal context) proper. Once again, if Steorn seeks to allege this as somehow use of a weapon to reflect badly on Steorn, then they should either have not invited Dr. Mike to begin with or should abandon the notion of the NDA altogether. Furthermore, it is evidence of stalling and obfuscation on Steorn's part to allege they would not show the device to Dr. Mike because of this.

If you sought to not be "sanctimonious", you have failed completely. The mere fact that you mentioned this makes me suspect you indeed wished to sound sanctimonious. No where in your post lashing out against Dr. Mike did you properly assess blame against Steorn other than to mention your feeling of disappointment and an ambigious reference to feeling "suspicious". In fact, you were content to feel better about yourself by lecturing Dr. Mike on his failure to appease Steorn and some undefined duty he owned to you and other forum members.

You actions during the totality of the events following the demo failure and your entirely unjustified attack against Dr. Mike are another significant blow to your credibilty as a "neutral" participant. Your insistent defense of Steorn at every corner and willingness to obfuscate on their behalf as evident in the Dr. Mike attack lead to the inescapable conclusion that so many have suspected for so long; you are nothing more than an agent of Steorn. Your interest is in the success of Steorn in whatever scheme it is involved. You lack impartiality and are likely either a fervent believer yourself despite your claims to the contrary or you are aware of the Steorn plan and are a participating member in whatever Steorn is perpetrating. Whatever the case may be, you do not appear to outside observers as credible and your integrity is highly suspect. As additional evidence of the same, I point to years of rude, highly offensive postings by the likes of Gaby, 007, and others that went unanswered by you while skeptics were banned without any explanation given.

I care nothing for any make-up session you had with Dr. Mike. This is about you Crank and how you represent yourself to the interested public. It is Steorn who has thrust itself in the public light and you chose to follow them there; it is therefore you also who will be examined in light of your actions and your claims.

maryyugo said...

I agree with jterry.

Not only that but I saw nothing to suggest that Dr. Mike violated his NDA in any manner whatever. I could also find nothing that said Crank or some other moderator had deleted anything that Dr. Mike had written. If I missed those, where are they?

Dr. Mike knows very well he can write here and not be censored because he has done so before. So if he was censored, that's just more bullsh*t from Steorn. They seemed to have tapped into plentiful supplies of free bullsh*t rather than free energy.

I think we'll learn much more next week as Dr. Mike and other people write about what they actually saw and did in Kinetica's upstairs and about the devious and tangential nonsense answers Sean gave to their perfectly normal questions.

maryyugo said...

This forum message string
Name a demonstrable Steorn lie and I will log off permanently
was resurrected from a deep sleep since about November 2006. At that time granthodges asked "I'm tired of people making up stuff they can't prove and casting aspersions.

Name a provable lie by Steorn concerning this technology and I will log off and never come back. Some of you would like that! It also would save me time."

to which, way back then, Dr. Mike responded:

"Steorn is making three claims for its technology:

1. The technology has a coefficient of performance greater than 100%.

2. The operation of the technology (i.e. the creation of energy) is not derived from the degradation of its component parts.

3. There is no identifiable environmental source of the energy (as might be witnessed by a cooling of ambient air temperature).


The sum of these claims is that our technology creates free energy."

I call that a lie. It is a purposeful statement which is not true.

I have all of human history to back me up. What does Steorn have to prove me wrong? "

That was pretty prophetic! It will be interesting to see what he adds to this when he writes again, presumably next week some time.

Meanwhile alsetalokin writes currently about Steorn lies:

"
0.5 watts/cc

have a reliable working device

will show device lifting a weight

will show stop-start version if the constant-rotation version isn't available

will release technical details end of 1st quarter 2007

device stopped because of heat from lights

drmike will have 2 days to examine device before public demo"

To which thenewoil adds:

"How about you name a few PROVABLE TRUTHS about Orbo????"

Heh. Yeah-- good points, folks.

Anonymous said...

@ jterry

That was an excellent post and reflects the mood of most ordinary visitors to the Steorn Forum. Crank is totally partial.

Anonymous said...

Steorn: Well I guess that many would say that the nature of the claim never allowed me to be viewed as credible, for sure we will have to do something to regain the confidence of those who hope we are right, we will do that.

Blog Owner: Sean makes a good point here. The failed demo doesn't do Steorn very much damage, considering that most everyone didn't believe them in the first place. What it does is do is attract more folks who may have a propensity of believe for this type of thing.

Doesn't that suggest that it is a cult? Those who were solidly skeptical are still skeptical. Those who pre-demo were open minded, but ready to be "wowed" by some incredible demonstration of self-sustaining rotation PLUS work are probably now skeptical. Those with blind faith are behaving like people who believe despite the lack of evidence.

I'm not sure that sheer numbers of believers have much to do with the truth of a situation. After all millions of people globally believe in all sorts of crap.

If Steorn are a legitimate business then this is a disaster for them. If they are a cult or a scam then this was a necessary step. You cannot have rational people like Grimer in the cult. The man is a former principle scientific officer for the UK Government and has published several scientific papers.

But Steorn can exploit those with blind faith provided it knows who they are and what makes them tick. The "demo" (I use that term loosely as nothing was demonstrated apart from Steorn's criminal incompetence and negligence), provides a useful separation tool to make sure that anyone with a rational brain like Grimer can be identified.

It's classic cult mind control.

Anonymous said...

I would like to thank the writer of this blog for his effort to summarize the daily flow of info from the forum. Too many threads to monitor, indeed!

Senthil Kumar said...

crank has become too cozy with Steorn to be objective anymore.

stflurker said...

I bet that the principle behind orbo is so simple that it could be easy to replicate it and that's the reason Sean had actually didn't want to show it.Also i bet that the spudders dr.mike included never saw or played with the working configuration.After seeing the photos posted here and elswhere on the net i'm 100% sure that there is something missing and also 99% sure that i know what's missing :) (lol i can hear you now) .
the configuration showed at kinetica is well known on the internet also known not to work.I'll give you just one hint:
sean stated that the core technology is based on "creation of specific magnetic fields(fields configuration)" and now think when a magnet moves? there is indeed one such configuration.some of you are working in the field from years :)
ps. i' not claiming ou here!!!! but just a special field configuration!

Anonymous said...

Come on! How in the hell is anyone buying this load of crap. Steorn has 20 employees that Sean said where working only on this device for at least the last year. In fact their claim was that they had a device a year ago and still they couldn't pull off a demo?! Sean has said many times they aren't building or designing products. That dog don't hunt! What the hell are they doing? The jury is supposed to be validating the THING, what ever it is, so what are all those employees doing?

In the Hobbit Hat video it looked like everyone was working, what the hell are they working on? Sean said they discovered this THING 3 years ago and they made their announcement almost a year ago that they had it, and wanted scientist to look at it. No, I take that back, Sean said that a university had already validated the device, but go public with their findings(yeah right!) What more is there to do?

This who thing is not only strange it smells very fishy. Hell I'll say it, this is a con plain and simply. I only hope it some sort of experiment or film project and not what it looks like, a way to con millions form investors!

Only an idiot would believe Steorn at this point.

Anonymous said...

Tread lightly at Steorn. Crank has gone into full on Totalitarian mode:

She has now (de-facto) decided that the faithful are untouchable.

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58921&page=1
In this thread you can view her insulting and swearing at skeptics as she explains that insulting and swearing at the faithful will not be tolerated.

Welcome to the hypocrisy of Steorn Moderation. Steorn is a joke, why should the moderation be any different?

Thanks ST, your blog just became that much more valuable. Much appreciated.

Anonymous said...

Well I just downloaded the Steorn submission to the Company Registrations Office dated 3/4/07. Interesting reading.
jimboot:Apologies to Sean if I have read this wrong but it looks like Steorn issued 5,287 shares valued at 8,377,433 euros on the 26th March 07. I'm not familiar with IE corporate reporting procedures so I don't understand how this marries up with the claim that there was new investment since August. There are some small shareholders in there too with only 6 or 10 shares.



crank:This was beaten to death with a shovel, at the time. The date that shares get issued doesn't have much to do with the date that the agreement to purchase the shares was made, which is when the money changed hands, which could be any time in the three years previous (I think it's three years, someone will correct me if I'm wrong).
----------------

Why is crank still trying to fly this one? THREE YEARS! BS!

vox_causa said...

@anon
At a minimum, Steorn would have to show a liability on the books for any investment taken in from previous fiscal years if they chose not to issue shares. They can't just put that money in the banks, debit their cash asset, and not offset that somehow on the otherside with an appropriate credit. If what she says is true, there will be evidence somewhere in the financials for this liability. Otherwise, its new money.

Anonymous said...

I agree that it just doesnt add up at all. Not even close. It's been working for three years and hours before the unveiling they are cutting holes in lexan with a hand drill? They are liars, but I am still fascinated by the situation and I hope the truth is eventually exposed. If it works, then lets see it and lets see it now.

15-India-Street said...

@vox_causa

You have a point here. I made a thorough analysis of the publicised finances and investment information of Steorn. Until now I cannot find any reason to believe Steorn lied about their investments.

The shares of Steorn were issued in three major tranches (December 2004, October 2005 and March 2007). It could be that the liability for the last 2007 investment was indeed taken in the previous fiscal year 2006, before the publicity of Steorn started in August. It should show however in the balance sheet of that fiscal year. But the publication of the 2006 balance sheet with the CRO is not expected before the end of this year.

Only when the liability does not show up in the 2006 balance, it is proven that Steorn lied about taking no more investments after August 2006.

http://fizzx.com/viewtopic.php?p=1488#1488

maryyugo said...

I think this is a good time to review, in the light of the recent Kinetica fiasco, the claims made by Sean in this Youtube video posted September 13, 2006.

On another subject, my favorite recent quote from the forums is something to the effect of "I just saw Bigfoot! ... and he was wearing a CEO vs COE T-shirt." ROTFWL!

Anonymous said...

I believe that Mr McCarthy is truly convinced of the validity of his invention. It is, in my view, a case of prolonged self deception.

BBC News

You can see very clear pictures of Orbo here. If one wants one can replicate it and tinker, its so simple.

Thicket said...

I found it interesting that 6 of the 'Magnificent Seven' seem to have abandoned replicating the Steorn device. These were the spudders that were given the Steorn design.

Only the lovable old tinkerer ABlaker succeeded in building the device. He got it to run for 8 hours before it stopped. There was no load, but he was skilled enough to reduce friction to get it to move for a long time.

Of course it wasn't over-unity.

It's cool that this old fella did better than all of Steorn's circus clowns put together.

bc said...

The more I look into this the more things don't add up.

Looking at the video of the first Steorn prototype, aka start/stop device, or Kinetica toy, I noticed something surprising (shocking even)

Sean says this:

A quick comment on the video of the small 'toy' that we showed last night. The device has a certain 'input' energy that is delivered by unlatching and allowing a weight to rotate (fall) through 90 degrees. An interaction happens between two sets of magnets (they go around a loop), this interaction causes another weight (twice the mass of the input weight) to be lifted through 90 degrees. It is that simple, the device stops and starts the cycle with the same magnetic potential energy and yet does work (circa 1:2).

I think Sean has made a very fundamental error here. He is assuming the ratio of energy before and after is the same as gravitational potential energy of the weights, but he neglects the potential energy of the magnetic field. The experimenter adds both gravitational and magnetic potential energy to the device, so no energy is in fact gained. It appears to be false accounting. I can't be exactly sure without seeing the device.

The principle of hiding a simple error in a complex machine is very common among previous PMM inventions, so I guess it should not really be a surprise. The complexity allows the inventor wiggle room for fooling himself and others.

The other anomaly here is that the magnet is used purely as a latch, a mechanical latch would achieve the same result. There is nothing in the prototype device that shows the hand wavy explanation about "magnets moving in specific paths" that Sean talks about in the video Mary linked. Indeed, nor does the circular Orbo that was supposed to be demoed.

It is hard to see how Sean can have such a specific pattern of incompetence here. A consistent mistake is possible, but Sean has 3 distinctly different types of device, he appears to be deluded 3 times in different ways.

bc said...

I'll also repost a comment from a physics forum about the video Mary linked:

The Gent starts off speaking very eloquently and with great fluidity about the company, how it was founded, when it started, etc. But, in preparation for the tech bits, he licks his lips and brings up his hands. As soon as he starts into the technical explanation of how the device works, he begins talking with his hands and looks down into them, only glancing up occasionally and no longer maintaining eye contact with the interviewer. It is at this exact moment that he develops a rather noticeable stutter. Once finished with talking about the device itself he returns immediately to his former method of speech.

There is no doubt in my mind that this man is keenly aware that the device doesn't work. He's not mistaken; he's lying.


Allowing for some license, he's not far off.

I just can't decide if Sean has a very specific pattern of self-delusion, or is actually a hugely convincing con-man. I have actually met someone very much like him, and I was never able to decide about him either.

maryyugo said...

@15-india-street

An aside-- any idea how to get a hold of fizzx's admin? I am trying to register but can't get the reg page to accept the info. It keeps returning me to itself even though I supplied everything asterisked.

Thanks.

My email is maryyugo [at symbol] yahoo dot com.

Anonymous said...

I don't think one can consider the investments or source of investments picture without considering what happened to the profits from Fraudhalt.

Supposedly a major deal. Where'd that cash go. Did they shift it over to Steorn?

In any case, there are so many lies and so much bullshit piled higher and deeper that I doubt they will ever be able to dig out. I am one who has gone from hopeful to doubtful.

That explanation for the Kinetica Toy...WTF???

Utter rubbish. If you look closely at the video frame by frame, the sequence of events is NOT EVEN WHAT HE DESCRIBES!

Even if it were, the magnetic potential is NOT the same at the end, it does not close a loop and the fact that it needs to be reset by hand ends it.

Based on that bull, I honestly wonder if Sean is Omnibus with that same crap about the SMOT!

Or how about answering HK's query about power spec's for a device with simulation calc's ... oops?

The list is endless.

Incompetent at best and proven bullshit artists.

Sick of the noise. I look forwsard to hearing about the Validation someday.

15-India-Street said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maryyugo said...

"I just can't decide if Sean has a very specific pattern of self-delusion, or is actually a hugely convincing con-man. I have actually met someone very much like him, and I was never able to decide about him either. "

Exactly.

Some time ago, I was involved in investigations of contractors who were defrauding a government "entitlement" program (in the United States).

Some of the providers were obviously intelligent, educated, articulate, and superficially believable. Still, careful analysis of their records (when they had them and when we could subpoena them) showed classical patterns of "fraud and abuse". All had made a large amount of money from their participation in what were basically charitable, publically funded programs designed to provide reasonable but not usurious compensation for providers.

I mention it because neither I nor any members of our team could ever be sure whether what was happening was fraud, self delusion, or some combination of it. And there was no reasonable way to extract that information from the provider.

The best we could do was to put an end to the fraud by suspending or revoking the provider's ability to participate in the program and to put in place whatever compensation and punishment was provided by law -- when we could get it past the "hard of hearing" courts and the clever and devious opposition lawyers.

This case may be a bit different. Sean showed a specific device at Kinetica. It was said to rotate indefinitely without energy input. As BC and others noted many times, Sean has claimed to have built a device which makes 0.5W/cc. In this case, either such devices exist, or they don't. If they don't, it's hard to see how it would be anything but fraud. Unless Sean is psychotic, the existence of delusion on that scale is hard to believe.

The human mind is very complex and I suppose one could be dishonest *and* deluded at the same time.

ben said...

(hairykrishna)
Sean evaded questions (by means of answering ones not asked – politician style) whenever asked about an actual experimental description. This pattern was also followed when he was giving what passed as a description of his 'thought experiment' to other forum posters, with no useful information ever given.

He disguises his evasiveness / vagueness by repeatedly saying that he is explaining or clarifying while doing neither.

When pressed for numbers he, reluctantly, gave values that were of no use in calculating what he wanted calculated. These numbers in themselves were ridiculous (i.e. not reality based).

He makes contradictory statements while carefully leaving enough 'wiggle room' to deny he ever said them later.

He attempted to 'blind with science' by making reference to (irrelevant) things that were mathematically and/or conceptually complex.

He removed threads referring to behaviours mentioned above.



Generally he is very good and seems convincing in quick, 'off the cuff', exchanges. He fairs badly under reasoned questioning or if he actually provides information that can be analysed, no matter how simple. I think he realises this and prefers his online conversations to proceed at speed and be as ‘content free’ as possible. I would imagine that he can be very convincing in person.

He's a liar. It has been obvious for a long time. I just can't believe they have made a mistake and are fooling themselves - it doesn't fit their behaviour.

Where does the ‘multiple university labs have replicated our results’ claim fit into a self delusion theory?

bc said...

I've been reading up past posts, I see most of you guys/gals have been following this for a while, I'm amazed you have the patience! Interesting comments, Mary. We may never know what goes on in Sean's head.

I looked at some of the UC Dublin presentation by Sean - sounded nonsense to me. Sean obviously has a superficial grasp of jargon and buzzwords, and with a good patter, can sound knowledgeable to a layman (e.g. investor), but is unable to fool an expert. (Also uncannily like the guy I know).

The amount of prevarication over such a long period by Steorn is truly remarkable. They seem to have retained plausible denial at every step though. In the end they can say "we said it was impossible from the start". It looks like they have spent all their time creating variations of test rigs and finding anomalies, either due to measurement error or misunderstanding a complex setup.

As for the "we don't develop products" excuse - touch of genius there, wish I could use that one myself!

I wonder, if anyone saw Sean's self-flagellation at Kinetica, did any part of it seem like a plea for help? "I'm trapped in a FE/OU/PMM hoax, and I can't get out!"

It's a truly bizarre story.

Anonymous said...

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=661

Hi,

We have put the forum on our website so that people can express thier opinions on what we are claiming and how we are going through a process of validation. All views are welcome and the company will not moderate this board and will not close it down.

Feel free to post your comments.

Thanks!

The Steorn Team

Anonymous said...

A newborn forum poster:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/account.php?u=32310

Writes an out for Sean:
http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58932&page=1

"Perhaps I am just unable to believe that someone as earnest as Sean is making this up. Having worked for dot.com's during the boom and bust"

Sounds like Sean's CV.
Comical...

Prometheus 777 said...

I wish I didn't have to say this but I am pretty convinced they are tapping a new energy source.

But then in view of my own research I would say that wouldn't I.

A member of the spud did get a lash up running for 8 hours and I have no reason to disbelieve him.

The fact that one can run a Carnot type cycle on the BH hysteresis curve is part of the answer.

But there is another part.

Prometheus 777

Anonymous said...

Mary

Interesting to read your background.

It is possible that McCarthy has a genuine machine but he wants to discredit free energy so that he can keep a monopoly of the machine for his own nefarious purposes, his own cult in other words. His motive may be power and the need to be "adored" rather than money.

He is certainly making a good job of discrediting free energy.

maryyugo said...

"Prometheus 777 said...
I wish I didn't have to say this but I am pretty convinced they are tapping a new energy source."


It doesn't do any good to "say it". If you know how to make free energy, do it and, unlike Steorn, show it! And win a Nobel Prize.

=====================

Anonymous said...
Mary ... It is possible that McCarthy has a genuine machine but he wants to discredit free energy so that he can keep a monopoly ...


Anything is "possible" but it's exceedingly unlikely that clownish Sean has anything.

As we've discussed before, it's not possible to discredit or suppress free energy when, as Steorn claims, it's a small easily made powerful machine. Nobody can suppress that if it exists. All someone with such an invention has to do is give a single public demo. Free energy's reputation wouldn't matter for a second if free energy existed. Its present reputation is bad because all that's been presented so far as free energy has been bad measurement, self deception, and rank fraud.

As someone else noted, self deception is unlikely in Sean's case. Where are all those universities that tested his device and found that it worked? Why would they have kept quiet and why are they so quiet now that Orbo bombed? Why did Dr. Mike not have a chance to see a working Orbo? And why if the lights caused the problem did they not turn them out and if the bearings caused the problem, did they not replace them or buy news ones from SOMEWHERE in the whole world. They have millions to spend. And no videos of a working Orbo could be shown? No older machines could be brought in? Who really believes *any* of that?

None of this Steorn stuff makes any sense unless its deliberate fraud. However, as I noted earlier, proving in court that it's fraud may never be feasible.

Anonymous said...

There's a mass delusion going on here, and for a very long time now too.

If you think back to how this nonsense story started, it was all because they were trying to power a CCTV camera using a microgenerator driven by a fan, and the purpose of the camera was to catch somebody committing ATM fraud.

So you want to set up a little camera beside an ATM machine, which is powered by electricity, but rather than tap into that electricity you decide to power it off a miniature wind mill?

And suppose it is a calm day, does that mean that there is no camera to catch the person committing the bank machine fraud?

So rather than doing something simple, which is to set up a little camera beside the ATM and run a power cable from the ATM, they decide to bolt a windmill onto the wall and power it off from there. As if somehow that would be more innocuous than an ordinary hidden camera.

(Incidentally, "there were no hidden cameras that I could see" is a self-annihilating sentence.
See here: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~rclark/gorn.html

From the link, my rebuttal: "this is generally useful, but not especially".)

So they have a problem with the wind mill; it's not making enough power. So they get tinkerin' and try to boost its efficiency (right about when the company is completely going bankrupt). All of a sudden, there is a funny problem; the machine is making MORE energy than it is consuming. What? Saved from the precipice of certain bankruptcy by a crazy overunity phenomenon? Get back and check your instruments. And lo the results come back, time to hunt down more investors because we got a real humdinger now.

PURE - UNADULTERATED - SCAM

Sean, you company is a bust. It was doing rubbish business and wasting money as fast as it could doing rubbish pointless projects about as completely far removed from the task at hand, which is to simply mount a camera beside a bank machine. You blew it, your company is broke, so you go ballistic with unsupportable free-energy claims that are eventually only going to get you arrested.

Best to turn yourself in to the authorities RIGHT NOW.
Got it??????