Tuesday, July 10, 2007

BBC, Hamsters, and Over Unity

Yesterday the article "The perpetual myth of free energy" appeared in on the BBC website. Professor Sir Eric Ash attended the demo and was able to interview the CEO of Steorn, Sean McCarthy. His analysis was blunt:

I believe that Mr McCarthy is truly convinced of the validity of his invention. It is, in my view, a case of prolonged self deception.
I find it interesting that he didn't pick up on the body language that others pointed out during the Friday Q&A. Eric Ash left the interview believing that Sean is deceiving himself vs. simply deceiving others.

Also today, Spiritual Beggar adds to his wonderful collection of Steorn Comics:

Finally, yesterday a fellow reader sent me this link to an overunity.com discussion related to how the Orbo demo may work. RoamZero posted this visimag image on page three of the discussion:

30 comments:

maryyugo said...

"related to how the Orbo demo may work"

Not sure what anyone means by that because nobody can demonstrate a working Orbo or ever has. What's the point trying to explain *how* something works before it has even been shown to exist, much less work?!

I have an invisible pink elephant in my garage. Why not explain how it works?

SteornTracker said...

maryyugo,

If you published pictures of your pink elephant, I'm sure someone on the Internet would try to recreate it, reverse engineer it, etc, whether it was real or not ;-).

bc said...

A classic comment from the forum:
Sir Eric (perhaps inadvertently?) serves as a strong character witness for Sean, going so far as to conclude that it is a case of self-deception, that Sean has deluded himself -- stating that Sean really believes the claim.

How is being pronounced insane helping Sean's case??

Sir Eric's advice really was the best Sean will ever hear "get back to software engineering". But by definition, the insane don't listen to reason.

@Steorn Team
Thanks for your invitation to join the lunatic asylum. Seriously guys, get a proper job ;)

Anonymous said...

Where has the "name me a demonstrable lie..." thread gone?

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58920&page=1

So Grant can pollute every thread with his religious BS, insult those who try to debate him, and be more obtuse than Sean (if possible). Anyone who points out these behaviors or calls him on one of his own contradictions is now subject to the wrath of the forum guard dogs.

Oh to be privileged and protected. Disgusting. Mags and Crank have neither objectivity nor balance in there moderation.

Anonymous said...

How would she publish pictures?

It is invisible.

Anonymous said...

instead of the picture posted by roamzero i would propose this one:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2704.0;attach=10453;image
that's the "How it works"
the one posted by roamtero is nice but has nothing to do with the effect
:)
btw. nice blog you have

Anonymous said...

If it is invisible, than how can it be pink?

maryyugo said...

"How would she publish pictures? It is invisible. "

Thank you. The elephant is not only invisible but shy. It particularly dislikes hot bright lights. In public, it tends to lose its bearings. Nobody has ever seen it run. It's a lot like Orbo except I haven't made millions of Euro with it. Yet.

maryyugo said...

About the moderators. I quote Crank:

" There were no hidden cameras that I could see. "

Heh! That speaks well for her basic reasoning powers!

HERE.

maryyugo said...

"If it is invisible, than how can it be pink?"

It's only pink when bathed in the light from a free energy source.

(We can keep going but it's a bit of a waste of Steorntracker's bandwidth)

To make better use of the bandwidth, in this Steorn forum message string, "Speccy" copied an MP3 file in which Sean is interviewed on July 4 by BBC News. It's a bit hard to find the segment (towards the end) but the claims made are preposterous-- for example something to the effect of tying some weights to the demo device and changing the configuration during the ten day run... somewhich, in retrospect,Sean probably made up on the spot.

And here is another excellent method of testing "overunity"-- a precision calorimeter similar to the Thermonetics machine I linked earlier but operating on a different principle. This machine will detect as little as 0.1% over unity. 0.5 watts per cc. would send it off scale within a few minutes.

This next week and the following should be very interesting.

vox_causa said...

It would be interesting to see how Sean could keep the demo device running continously (as promised) AND change the configuration by adding weights WITHOUT stopping the system to attach the weights. Although it would not be an engineering impossiblity, it would be quite humerous to see the scene:

Sean: "Can someone slow that disc down! I can't get this darn weight attached to the psuedo-load-appendage!"

Helper: "But if we slow it down or stop it, people will say we reset the system."

Sean: "Stop complaining and reset...I mean put the weights on."

Speccy said...

@maryyugo:

The July 4th Interview can be found here: http://groups.google.com/group/steorn-group/files

The trimmed-down MP3 only contains the Sean interview with Today FM, and lasts about 5 mins instead of the original 50.

Anonymous said...

The whole sorry saga is getting closer and closer to a Beckett play.
'Waiting for Orbo' anyone ?

Thicket said...

As a Steorn-cynic, there have been some wonderfully entertaining moments in the Steorn saga. The best is the July farce but there have been many others.

A partial list of 'remember when' goes like this.

Remember when

* There were threads about Orbo-powered planes.

* There were predictions of oil companies going under and the dependence on mid-East oil being broken.

* There were 'serious' threads about which stocks and commodities would be good investments when Orbo hit the market.

* When the believers would clammer for Sean's attention, oozing with idolation, whenever the great man lavished modest attention on his salivating masses.

* When Babcat was so frustrated with skeptics that he volunteered to debate Sean from a skeptic's perspective. (note: I like Babcat.)

* When the majority of forum posters mercilessly roasted Hairy because they actually believed that Sean had a device that he was willing to show a physicist.

* When Sean mumbled technical hints like magnetic viscosity, fast in/slow out and magnetic paths that sent orgasms through believers as they excitedly analyzed, speculated and extrapolated the meanings of Sean's latest pronouncements.

* When believers lambasted skeptics for being 'close-minded' because they wouldn't believe the pronouncements of one single person named Sean McCarthy.

* When Mags taunted skeptics to join the on-line poll and then graciously accepted defeat by sinking the thread and a follow-up thread.

* When Crank practised investment analysis by contacting an accountant who didn't have a clue what she was talking about.

* When Sean maintained that April 15 was the end of the first quarter.

* When believers maintained that oil company executives were trembling in their boots because they were worried about Steorn.

* When Sean continuously stumbled when tech-talking with Hairy, and believers having no clue.

There were many, many more.

ben said...

My personal favourite 'Sean moment' was when he claimed he could show a COE violation 'using the standard equations'. Good luck with that.


I think the biggest 'blinkered believer' moment was when people continued to believe cranks nonsense about share revenue being entered up to 3 years after the shares had been sold. This was AFTER the link to the Irish governments own page saying that it was a legal requirement that share transactions are recorded within a few months. I’m no accountant but that seemed pretty cut and dried…

roamzero said...

The only reason I posted that image was to get a clarification on what deedee described. If anything, I learned that visimag is a bitch to work with :p

Anonymous said...

Thicket,

I was a believer. And I was one of them complaining about you and other skeptics.

I want to apologize to you and the others who knew Steorn was wrong. I apologize for all members of the SPDC.

Steorn has nothing. Has shown nothing. And belief does not make it true.

I am truly sorry to all of the skeptics who where correct all along.

bc said...

Ah, Sean Moments*, so many to choose, I'll pick one:

As for our technical credibility - wait and see, this has always been our position.
-- Sean Jan 14th 2007

And the Jury is still out on this "Most Blinkered Believer" nomination:

The demo is not cancelled, but postponed. So when it resumes,I’ll be back here to shove you’re bullshit blog story down your throat.
-- 007 July 7th, 2007


* A Sean Moment is when the Force of Belief acts at a right angle to the real world

Anonymous said...

You know, the funny thing I've seen nobody address is that if what was shown at the demo was the actual device, there was no visible breaking mechanism on it. Shouldn't this mean then that if the device was overunity, it would gradually accelerate to the point that which it would break?

Then again, we're talking about something that really doesn't exist so the point is moot I guess.

Anonymous said...

Oh... My... God!!!!!

Remember the internet cameras that had been set up to watch the live demo at Kinetica? Yes?

Anybody click on camera #1 lately?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Magnatrix said...

@ "anonymous"
I didn't get rid of that "name a lie" thread.. infact I particpated in it! Grant and I tend to not get along. That was Crank. try to get the facts straight, please.


@ Thicket
I accepted defeat graciously three times on the wager.
including on the original website that hosted it.
I did not sink it. There are several admins and moderators now.
(IMO,however, that thread could get removed now, it no longer has relevance.)

I did sink the fourth thread created on it. I mean really, people could have gloated enough on the other threads available.
If this had gone the other direction, I would have done the same thing.
This wildbucks wager was over a week ago, time to move on n'est pas?
I have many more bets to be concerned about winning on that site...lol

just for the record, and this is my final time: I accept defeat. I lost the wager. I was wrong that the demo would occur.
Never accuse me of being a poor-sport. Thank You :-P (lol)

josh said...

I was looking at the Joe Cell thing and trying to figure it out. I hypothesized that most of the stuff you hear about it now is just disinfo. I assumed that it was an electrolysis device as it appears rather than some esoteric etheric device which shoots secret energy into your carburetor and restructures the air so that it burns.

If one looks at a Joe Cell, one sees that it appears to work as if a number of electrolysis cells were connected in series. [Each ring in the Joe cell acts as both anode on one surface and cathode on the
other.] I decided to test gas production from electrolysis cells in series.

For the same amount of power, I produced approximately 300% more hydrogen when six electrolysis cells were connected in series than the single cell control. It works. Try it yourself with test tubes and straight DC power. I was using 16 V DC.

The single cell ran at 16V 70milliamps for 10 minutes and filled 3.4 cm of the test tube with hydrogen.

6 electrolysis cells were set in series and ran at 16V, 10milliamps for 60 minutes and each test tube was filled with 2.4cm of hydrogen.

The results conservatively showed 300-400% higher H2 production than standard DC electrolysis. Check it out, do the experiment. Took me just a few minutes to set up.

Peace,

Joshua Gulick

P.S. check out my new website http://alchemicals.com and let me know what you think or get a free ebook about alchemy. Or order my magnetite pills which might make you psychic! Add a link to me on your website and tell me about it and I'll give you a big discount!

Anonymous said...

To summarize, the filing is archived at:

http://www.yourfilelink.com/get.php?fid=355688

The filing is Form B5 "Return of Allotments," filed 3 Apr 2007 for shares allocated on 26 March 2007.

The form describes the allotment of 5284 shares for €8,377,422 in cash.

As support for when the money actually changed hands, there is:

http://www.hometown.ie/clrg/section.asp?SECTID=ca2003_s204

"Where a company allots shares, it shall within one month of the allotment deliver particulars of the

allotment in the prescribed form to the Registrar for registration."

There is also:

http://www.hometown.ie/clrg/section.asp?SECTID=ca2003_s201

"A share in a company shall be taken to have been paid up (as to its par value or any premium on it) in

cash or allotted for cash if the consideration for the allotment or the payment up is cash received by

the company or is a cheque received by the company in good faith which the directors have no reason for

suspecting will not be paid or is the release of a liability of the company for a liquidated sum or is

an undertaking to pay cash to the company at a future date."

On the basis of the filing and the apparently applicable code, it is not unreasonable to conclude that

Steorn accepted ~€8.4M of investment in March 2007.

Steorn's response was at:

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58200

Steorn Says:

"There has been no new investment since August, I said this yesterday and for the past six months. Its

that simple."

nleseul asks:

"So is that new CRO document just reporting various transactions that happened during the first part of

2006, as crank is suggesting?"

And Steorn replies:

"Yep, this whole thing is what happens when you have a cynic trying to check accounts with no knowledge

at all of what he is talking about"

Anonymous said...

Sir Eric Ash was being polite. Sean took the time out to take his interview and Sir Eric Ash took the safe road by saying that Sean was honest in his belief of having achieved OU.

Sir Eric Ash said what was important...there is no OU Orbo...

What's he going to do, call Sean a crook after a short interview?

Anonymous said...

This company claims to have patents on this technology. Patents are public records and must fully disclose the invention. Has anyone actually looked at them? I did a quick search at the us patent office and found nothing for Steon, either as a assignee or as inventor, nor anything related by an inventor or assignee in Dublin Ireland.

Any pointers to their patents would be appreciated. Thus must (if they are telling the truth) be available

Thicket said...

Thicket,

I was a believer. And I was one of them complaining about you and other skeptics.

I want to apologize to you and the others who knew Steorn was wrong. I apologize for all members of the SPDC.

Steorn has nothing. Has shown nothing. And belief does not make it true.

I am truly sorry to all of the skeptics who where correct all along.

----------------------------------

Thank you. I appreciate your post.

Take it from an old guy who's been around the block a few times.

Don't let the Steorn experience sour you on creativity and optimism. There are so many exciting challenges and new things to discover. Use good judgment to separate the gems from the bullshit. Lots of folks are intelligent, but wisdom comes with experience. I think you've become a bit wiser.

It's also better to lead than to follow.

Have a great day.

meta said...

"The results conservatively showed 300-400% higher H2 production than standard DC electrolysis. Check it out, do the experiment. Took me just a few minutes to set up."

Cool experiment. Try this again, do both tests, first one cell, then 6 cells in series. Measure the temperature in the single each cell, and then the temperature in each cell in the series experiment. I think you will find that interesting. Also, in the series experiment, find the voltage across each cell. With this data logged you can, with a bit of math, derive the power going into each cell in both experiments. Report back with your conclusions.

maryyugo said...

"I produced approximately 300% more hydrogen when six electrolysis cells were connected in series than the single cell control. "

Have fun making hydrogen but remember when mixed with the oxygen in air it becomes a BOMB!

Don't make an ash out of yourself.

dreamslaughter said...

Hello

I have a new design for a very efficient motor/generator.

Can I ask for your advice and opinion on its concept.

dreamslaughter.com/kore/kore.htm

Thanks in advance.

Anonymous said...

Sean is a wiggly wiggly worm.