Wednesday, July 11, 2007

The Last Word Followup and Lots of Questions

Matt Cooper of The Last Word did a follow-up interview today with Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn. Sean explains again why the demo failed, but insists that this is a small bump in the road and that we'll be seeing a demo soon. The interview starts around 20 minutes into the recording at lasts for about 5 minutes.

Also today, Sean visited the forum for a while and answered a lot of questions. I've categorized them here:

On the African Pump Situation

JoinTheFun: what's the status of the African pump project?
Steorn: The pump I believe is being installed at the moment.

Suomipoika:
[asking about the african pump] How is it possible? The device is so fragile that you can't drive one from Dublin to London. Wasn't that the reason you didn't replace the devices with stopstarts from Dublin?
Steorn: As I said we bought three (CM) devices from Dublin in parts, got one working on site (it can take a while to balance the radial loads on the system) and then while under pressure used the parts from the other two systems to try and fix the prime system. It did not work. Thats the facts of the situation, believe it or believe it not.

mrflora: The pump again, Sean... are you saying that now, today, this week, a pump is being installed in Africa that is driven by Orbo overunity technology?
Steorn: The pump is being installed by a local engineering contractor (I do not know the exact schedule), once this is in place we will install the Orbo power supply for it.

FLD:
Sean - is the African water pump driven by fuel-less Orbo technology? Yes or no will be fine thanks.
Steorn:
It will be fuel-less when the project is completed, at the moment we are only in the process of installing the basic pumping system.
On Dr. Mike
Suomipoika: Do you have a device, which generates OU? Very common opinion here is, that you don't. If you do, why wasn't Dr. Mike able to see that?
Steorn: As said the devices that we bought to London failed, that simple, so Mike did not see anything. There is no more to the story.

Suomipoika: Why didn't you take Dr. Mike to Dublin?
Steorn: We had other things that we needed to deal with, again you can spin the matter anyway you want, but these are the facts, we will do the demo soon enough and then lets see where we stand.

observer: Why didn't you invite Dr. Mike to follow the assembly of the device? He would have been in the position to see it working then, even if it was not possible for him to analyze it further.
Steorn: Well I guess that the straight answer is that no engineer wants anyone looking over at them while they work, we where under pressure and having someone looking at our engineers work would not help.

blueletter: What do you say to Dr. Mike's assertion that much of this whole thing lives only inside your head?
Steorn: I guess that in a way I understand his comments, its not true but in the circumstances I doubt that you will believe me.

Suomipoika: Sean! Dr. Mike didn't have possibility to see the device. Who's the next skeptic you're gonna invite and when will this happen?
Steorn: I do not think that we will have a problem finding a credible skeptic next time.

Suomipoika: Sean, you implicate that Dr. Mikes credibility was problem.
1) Are you saying that Dr. Mike wasn't credible?
2) When will this "next time" be? I could come tomorrow, ok to you?
Steorn: Where did I imply Dr. Mike was not credible, seemed like a very smart guy when I met him for the limited period of time that we had.

Suomipoika: I asked you: "Dr. Mike didn't have possibility to see the device. Who's the next skeptic you're gonna invite and when will this happen?"
And you answered: "I do not think that we will have a problem finding a credible skeptic next time."
Of course this implies that Dr. Mike wasn't credible.
But next question is: When can NEXT skeptic-visit happen at earliest?
Steorn: To your mind it may imply that, there is no intent to imply that. The next skeptics visit will be reported on after it happens.
On the Jury
JoinTheFun: Any word of the jury as to when they think they'll be ready ?
Steorn: I'm not going to comment on the Jury process.

Speccy: In a couple of Irish newspaper articles last week, it was stated that the jury result was due next year. Is this now the case, or can we still expect a result in 2007?
Steorn: I said that I did not have a timeline for the results, which is the facts of the matter, I have not had a chance to read any of the media stuff yet, so I am not sure what was printed.

SteornTracker: Back in April you mentioned that there would be a second quarter Jury update. Are you still planning on providing an update? When do you think that update will be available?
Steorn: Hi ST, have not even thought about the subject at the moment.
On the Failed Demo
pcstru4: How come you say you have been so busy for the last few months preparing a demo, then pull the excuse that you only gave the engineers three days?
Steorn: Its as simple as stated, we tried to install them in a few hours under pressure, we made some mistakes and the demo did not happen. So few will believe the story, its up to them, its what happened.

couldbe: Sean, why did you attempt to demo a device that did no appreciable work? From what I've read here, a lightweight disk can be made to spin for a long time with very little input. Wouldn't it be more convincing to demo an orbo with its innards hidden, but one that did real work?
Steorn: Well the intention was to show the 'raw' device and then the system doing work, at this point they are just failed intentions so I do not expect anyone to believe it.

JoinTheFun: There are a couple of days left in the Kinetica. Any chance of showing the world a working device these coming days ?
Steorn: Nope.

majicmagneticmoment: MALARKY! I am an engineer and have been for over 30 years. I have always have had someone looking over my shoulder and have learned to expect it. Where did you get your engineers? France?
Steorn: I have spent a lot of my engineering life with people staring at me, so I know the feeling. But at the end of the day no one was looking at us while we worked (lots of people taking pics of us and recording our phone calls as we came and went).
Recording their phone calls? I don't understand that comment.
buzzlightyear: I could understand if there was to be some nervosity between the investors right now. Do they actively follow the company developments, or do they act as distant financial investors? How are they taking the demo failure?
Steorn: Clearly no one involved in the company is happy about the failed demo, but despite this we also need to keep perspective - its a failed demo full stop. It has shaken to the core any confidence that people not involved with the company have, and this is understandable. But we know what we have to things are not as dire as people would like to make them. We will do the demo, and then move on.

JoinTheFun: How is the overall mood in your team ?
Steorn: Clearly it was not a good week. But we are 'back in the saddle' and a lot more motivated than we were a few weeks ago, so in a strange kind of way the failure of the demo may in fact speed up our route to market, we will see.

tony: Why are you even attempting to demo before the Jury verdict is out? p.s. I dont understand why you would even try to convince anyone before this. Surely you should be pragmatic, what if the verdict goes against you?
Steorn: It seemed like a good week to put ourselves back on the agenda, we got on the agenda but for the wrong reasons.

blueletter: Did you sir, or did you not, get piss drunk on the very night of both your infamous demo debacle and your wife's foot breaking incident?
Steorn: Nope. And no my wife did not break her foot kicking me around the place, she broke it the day before we went to London.

rosco: Are the public relations company behind your strategy? If so isn't it time to get rid of them as it seems like you've now used up nine lives in public opinion terms
Steorn: Sure it may seem that way to you at the moment, bottom line is that it is a failed demo, embarrasing for sure, but no more than that. We will do a demo, then lets see what happens.

korkskrew: I still don't understand the purpose of a demo. It seems like a lot of expense for no real business reason. Is it just for our entertainment? Seems like a lot of money and effort for that.
Steorn: With a claim so wild we decided that we need to do multiple things to errode the view that we do not have what we claim to have. This event failed, very clearly failed, but we believe that it was worth the effort and will do the demo. Our prime investment was in marketing materials and these will be used for the rescheduled event when we decide to do it.

FLD: This event failed, very clearly failed, but we believe that it was worth the effort errrm...it was an utter failure and made you a laughing stock but it was worth the effort?
Steorn: As in we believe that it is worth the effort doing public demos, this one did not work out but we will for sure do public demos again in the future.
SPDC Questions
JoinTheFun: Can you tell us how recent events have affected the SPDCites ? Did you meet Babcat ?
Steorn: I had a chance to meet a few of them for an extended period on Friday and Saturday, I have not had a chance to head into the SPDC, but we do consider the SPDC key to the Steorn project and so have a lot of confidence to regain with them. We are pulling together a plan to do that.

Kaiser Jive Albino: How long would it take an engineer at Steorn to build a working unit from scratch, with off the shelf parts? Will individuals be able to replicate it with "minimal" tooling? Thanks for your answers, and great to see you back btw!
Steorn: Good to be back (I think) - the ease of replication for a hobbist has been a concern, however I do believe that one of the SPDC folks got a system running for 8 hours or so with what looks like pretty minimal parts, but I have not had a chance to look into this in any detail yet.
I find it interesting that Sean is willing to speculate on a pretty significant SPDC event when he hasn't looked into the details of it yet.

Upcoming Steorn Activity
hugojpinto: Do you realize and believe that doing a convincing demo + technology showcase + providing straight replication access is a critical piece of in gaining confidence in the near future?
Steorn: Yes - and perhaps even a bit more than that.

meta: On openness, in the post cancellation video you mentioned something about being less cryptic and covert, and pushing Steorn into a more open direction. Can you expand on that?
Steorn: We have plans in place to deal with the confidence issues, but I will not be pre-announcing these, they will happen and let people debate them at that time.

prprior: Sean, for the sake of those that don't think this is a lie, hoax, or dilusion, why can't you post a video of at least a partial orbo? Enough to conceal any secrets with the design, but showing enough to ease a dry tongue.
Steorn: As stated we will be doing stuff, I will not be going into what it is or when it will happen but we acknowledge that we do need to some additional things after the failure of the demo.
I think Steorn's new strategy of not announcing things before they happen is a pretty good idea!

General Questions
pcstru4: I'll try once more : How many functional OU devices do you have back in dublin - not test rigs but actual devices which demonstrate OU. Please give a number for Stop/Start & CM.
Steorn: At the moment no.
I'm not sure if Sean is saying that he won't answer the question, or no, there are currently no OU devices in Dublin.
Suomipoika: Sean! Are your all OU-devices so fragile that they'll break
a) if transported by car or
b) if lights are too bright?
Steorn: Nope

meta: Sean, I take it you missed my above question to you about calorimetry?
Steorn: I will not go into the specific tests that are going to be conducted, or the testing process in any detail.

meta: Why have you not done calorimetry yet?
Steorn: As I stated before I am not going to go into details of planned tests, however we have tested for thermal 'energy account' balancing and it does not even come close to balancing the energy equation.

/: Sean, we have heard that many actual Orbo-based systems have been made by external companies (like the "validation toys", for the Africa pump, etc.). Can you tell us some rough figure how many third-party engineering companies have been involved so far?
Steorn: 4-5

buzzlightyear: Steorn has been open about the marketing and financial partners, but there is no information about technology partners. Can you name one of the technology partners? Like the company that you work with in the Netherlands?
Steorn: Our partners work for us under mutual NDA, so nope I will not be discussing it in the public domain.

jorb: Have the investors seen a working OU device?
Steorn: Again I am not going to get into who has seen what, all people involved in Steorn or working for us are under mutual NDA. So I am just not going to answer questions on the Jury, our tech partners, staff or investors.

aber0der: Sean, do you plan to update the site re the licensing model? "Further details will be made available during the first half of 2007."
Steorn: I will have to follow-up and see where we are at with this.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

This is just sad.

I can't believe anyone is buying this now. Sean needs a good lawyer, the people who have invested in this fantasy have to be pissed. I think it's only a matter of time before the company is shut down and its assets seized. Sean is going to have to fight criminal charges of fraud. Maybe DrMike's report will help him establish an insanity plea.

Question: does Steorn employee any energineers, or do the just contract them?

Anonymous said...

Sean doesn't even know how many engineering firms he contracts with? When asked he says "4 or 5"?

What the hell, maybe it's 0 or 777!

How can you not give a straight answer to that question. It's either 4 or it's 5, which is it?

Sniper said...

Nice summary Steorntracker, thanks.


"I have not had a chance to head into the SPDC, but we do consider the SPDC key to the Steorn project and so have a lot of confidence to regain with them."

"the Steorn project", not the Orbo technology?

If I had my tinfoil hat on I might conclude that means the SPDC and possibly the forum are "the Steorn project"

--

@ Dr.Mike,

Hi and thanks for your efforts. May I ask, what is the mood between you and Sean right now? Adversarial, Pleasant, Stiffly Polite?

Thanks

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that Sean should fire the engineers who had the last year to make ONE working device, and hire the groupie who was able to take the failed demo and get it to spin for 8 hours! Naw, that's too obvious!

Anonymous said...

Has anyone else wondered why Sean would waste hours upon hours reading and responding to his forum. If he is 50% of the engineering staff, then he should be totally focused upon bringing out a working model that doesn't self destruct under the presence of a few photons instead of pissing away his time typing instead of doing!

Adam said...

Hey I figured out how to achieve overunity!!

We take Sean and pair him up with that Iraqi general from the war. The amount of spin the two would generate together would power the world!

If Sean is delusional, he's weaving a tapestry of fiction that's epic.

/first non-anonymous post

Anonymous said...

Regarding some of the moderators of the Steorn forum, you need to consider this when understanding their behaviour. By several of their own declarations, they don't understand the science of what Steorn is trying to propose. Yet, they have worked themselves into positions of power by "moderating" comments by people with a lot more education. The mere fact that they are devoting thousands of hours to the message boards suggests strongly that they aren't pursing many other social outlets. They may never again come anywhere close to being involved with anything that even hints of "research", and they know it. Thus, they will loose 1)large numbers of social contacts, 2)relatively high social status in the forum 3)a strong sense of "belonging" and self-worth by aligning themselves with Steorn, and 4)a sense of destiny to solve the world's problems with free energy. Thus, they have a LOT to lose by just up and walking away if they dare to acknowledge that Steorn has nothing credible to back itself up. With this in mind, don't be too hard on them when they "refuse" to see the corner they have painted themselves into.

Anonymous said...

ok, comments 4, 5, and 7 are all mine. I just had to get that off my chest as I've been lurking here for over a week, watching the spectacle unfold.
Sigh.

ezz said...

Gotta admit, he talks a steady spin.

I see no reason to throw anything at him, the demo was punishment enough, unless you're an investor. The man says he'll show us something soon. If you want more ammunition, just wait for that. But I know at least I'm tired of all the skeptics gloating and giving reasonable skepticism a bad name.

Anonymous said...

pcstru4:I'll try once more :

How many functional OU devices do you have back in dublin - not test rigs but actual devices which demonstrate OU. Please give a number for Stop/Start & CM.

Steorn: At the moment no.

http://www.steorn.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=58991&page=2#Item_42

Straight from Sean's mouth, they do not have an actual device in Dublin that demonstrates OU. Wow.

Prasenjit said...

I haven been following the claims about the free energy, antigravity devices etc. It will be really wonderful if such claims are true. But one surprising thing that none of these devices work infront of the camera. Are they all camera shy? Is it not strange?

Anonymous said...

The fact:

20 employees working for four years with average salary of 3000 EUR/month (+other employment expenses roughly 500 EUR/month).

The math:

20 x 3500 EUR x 12 x 4 = 3 360 000 EUR

The result:

No such thing as Financial Over Unity.
The end is near.
It has been fun though.

Anonymous said...

"Straight from Sean's mouth, they do not have an actual device in Dublin that demonstrates OU. Wow."

no i don't think that's what he said. i belive he meant "at the moment no i will not give you a number".

since when is "no" and answer "how many"?

but it is an asnwer to "please give..."

that having been said, i'm not convinced they do have an actual device that works, but it do not beleive Sean was admitting that in this reply.

drmike said...

@sniper - Very buisness like, and polite.

bc said...

No such thing as Financial Over Unity.
The end is near.


I think you are right, I think Sean will have been desparately pleading with the investors not to pull the plug "we are so close!", but no one will give any extra money. The investors may not be so concerned about the demo, but will want to know what license deals etc have been signed.

I expect Steorn to keep going until the existing money runs out. After that, maybe Sean will continue in his garage with a couple of Spudders.

h0bb1t said...

I think that strategy behind Steorn approach is following:

1. public claim
2. no tech details, but bs with jury to make it look serious
3. promise for demo, but in distant future (did they announce it half a year before event)
4. proper marketing preparation - posters, live video etc. - everything to make it look like they really care, hence have something - once again, so it would look like they have something big time.

All is done in enormous time frime with no evidence, and huge PR of course.

There are plenty of investors money out there, and I think Steorn hope was that in golden rush of upcoming demo someone will try to catch their fortune by buying prevalidated technology with reason that "I can get it today, and looks like these guys know their business and all. But just next morning after successfull validation the stake would be much higher and there would be serious competition". Shares trades philosofy.

So, when there is no actual technology, demo as such is not important, what is important is - enough time given for fish to react on bait.

I'm pretty sure that Sean and Co were waiting/fishing for big money to come and buy their cat in the bag.

Ginger Yellow said...

I love this "working for 8 hours claim". If the Orbo technology actually produces free energy, it would either run forever or not at all.

Anonymous said...

What's the phone number for the police in Dublin, *I* will give them a call.

Anonymous said...

I think that we should all have collectively screamed "BULLSHIT!" the moment that the words "creating free energy" were formed by his lips.

That's what I did, anyway.

Anonymous said...

Any over-unity device would be unstable meaning a need for feedback or regulation. In other words if it put out more energy than it consumed in friction and heat then it would need a governor or other mechanical regulator. Otherwise, it would build up speed and spin itself apart.

My conclusion: It runs on the "Copenhagen Interpretation" principle (Neils Bohr. The wheel does spin potentially...when your not observing it!!!

Suomipoika said...

> if it put out more energy than
> it consumed in friction and
> heat then it would need a
> governor or other mechanical
> regulator. Otherwise, it would
> build up speed and spin itself
> apart.

This will happen only if efficiency is constant in all rpm:s. If the efficiency/rpm curve is nonlinear, the device could reach rpm where efficiency is exactly 100%, and there it would be stable. Adding external load would change it stability point.

Anonymous said...

>>I love this "working for 8 hours claim". If the Orbo technology actually produces free energy, it would either run forever or not at all.<<

this claim was not made for orbo technology, but for something an spdc member did on their own.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know what rpm the kinetica demo unit is claimed to operate at? Also, IF it ran for several hours before the demo, it would be interesting to know how many cycles it completed. I think it has been said it spins not oscillates (could be wrong)

* all the standard assumption disclaimers

maryyugo said...

At this point nobody knows who did that eight hour spinning thing, what spun, why and how. So it's non-information.

All Steorn has to do to be credible is to show their machines. Until they do, everything else on the forums is a sort of mental and intellectual masturbation and from watching some of it, I can tell you it isn't pretty.

Anonymous said...

Just an aside from the fact that orbo doesnt exist outside Seans ego....If it did exist there would be no liscencing profit to be had from it. Everyone and every factory and every government would build one. It would be too much to keep track of. Orbo powered boatloads of orbos would be leaving china within 6 months. The whole point of "FREE" energy is that its free right.

maryyugo said...

From the Steorn forum:

"CommentAuthorkennedy3 CommentTime5 hours ago

I am currently conducting an interview with Sean via e-mail. Once complete it will be published on my blog.

I am trying to get a feel for how the last week has gone and trying to steer clear of the obvious questions that have been asked over and over.

Most people here know that I am a total skeptic, however it does not mean I have no respect for Sean and I really do appreciate his integrity, determination and honesty.

So bookmark this page;
http://chemistryguy.blogspot.com/ "

FYI. That might be interesting ... or not. Guess we'll see.

Anonymous said...

If Drmike's assumptions about Sean and Orbo are correct, the situation is not good. The symptoms Drmike described indicates schizophrenia, not delusion. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

For example, I'm pretty convinced that Dr. Mabuse is Sean himself, otherwise our liebe Herr Doktor would've been more active in the forums during the demo.

I also think that guy who threatened Sean and his family last winter was probably Sean himself.

Etc.

I just hope that somebody from Steorn Staff would contact his wife/family (does he have one?) and try to settle the situation somehow. Sean MAY need help.

Anonymous said...

I'm the CEO of my own company with 10 employees. Turnover $2m per year. I spend about 50% of my time selling and managing clients and 30% managing the business, contracts, taxes etc.

Steorn has no sales, no customers and no profits (therefore no taxes). The engineers get 3 days to prepared the demo. Sean has only been talking to the press for the last 7 days. What do they do the other 51 weeks of the year?

Anonymous said...

Why, that's obvious - whole Steorn team posts on steorns forum under different nicknames - they are the moderators and believers and even some mild sceptics.

Anonymous said...

It would be worth checking Kennedy's post history on the steorn forum.

For anyone who does not remember DrMike's selection of 'forum skeptic' many moon's ago,
Kennedy was Steorn's first choice, and accepted the offer, however not many poster's were too keen on kennedy and DrMike was put forward instead.

Kennedy soon faded away after this, but now returns with a dubious blog including the suppresion of Browns Gas ..and more.

If steorn have commented on thier own forum under different names to suit thier own purpose the Kennedy would be a likely candidate.

Anonymous said...

Questions about "who posts where and when" and secret identities are immaterial, it really makes no difference whether or not Steorn employees work all day posting to the forum or not. The Steorn forums are worthless; only the mentally feeble frequent them any more, and certainly nobody of any repute bothers to read them. What for? The true nature of this hoax / fraud has been split wide open now.

Nobody needs to think hard about the fraud that has been committed. The demo and the jury were nothing more than ruses meant to drum up media coverage and public interest so as to bring in the greatest quantity of marks, the gullible investors ready to seek shares of this flop and be fleeced. All Sean has to do is pretend to not understand the questions, to be too busy on supposedly important things to know the specific details, or have enough scripted excuses so as to deflect any possible criticism or extend any promises for an indefinite period of time. He does a remarkably good job and he's getting better. He will never deliver anything of substance, and those amongst us with the right background will know that and moreover know exactly why he will never be able to deliver anything (and should never have doubted that fundamental knowledge, actually). The excuses will continue for as long as the story delivers the paying marks, and when they dry up he will take his exit.

Those who actually believe, or are willing to suspend disbelief; seriously, what is your background, other than a large ego or inherent distrust or dislike of perceived arrogance of "experts" who say that what won't work, will not work? What do you know of thermodynamics anyway? Do you understand the concept of entropy? Do you truly understand it, that is, can you calculate the change in entropy of a proposed mechanism; or have you just looked it up in a dictionary and know what somebody else says it means? You know nothing; and the laws of thermodynamics are as good as irrefutable.

The fact is: this is a filthy scam and the knowledgeable amongst us have left, or will shortly. The show has ended, badly. The promise of "more to see" is rancid. There truly is nothing more to see, nor will there be, except more of the same but perhaps of a different flavor. Different rotten excuses are not palatable, the only ones left consuming this pathetic story are the weak minded. The only sad thing (from my perspective) is that I sort of have to include myself within that grouping. Well, except I think I shall endeavor to develop a new interest.

It hurts to face the fact; I've been duped not only into paying attention, but continuing to pay attention. Sure it's a train wreck and it's a little bit fascinating to see. But it's doing me no good and possibly harming others. Does this story deserve to be dignified by my attention any more? Or anybody's for that matter? No! Sean, you may slink back into your sewer hole.

maryyugo said...

Dr. Mike's report is here (clickie)

Anonymous said...

I hear Sean is going to be hired to take the place of Tony Snow..

Thicket said...

Dr. Mike's trip report is up on his website. No real surprises. It was an interesting read.

drmike said...

Final report posted:

http://www.eskimo.com/~eresrch/Steorn/final_report.text

Bed time for this boson. Jet lag sucks going west!